Design Topic: PBEM Sequence

[Greyshaft]

This is not a simple topic

One of the biggest challenges for the CWiF design team will be the PBEM sequence of play. If you go to www.a-d-g.com and download the WiF:FE rule set then you will see that the standard sequence of play allows over 100 successive interactions between the Axis and Allies players within a single impulse. Multiply this by (say) half a dozen impulses for each of the 36 turns within a campaign game and you have a couple of thousand emails passing between the Axis and Allied teams in order to finish a game. Of course, if you are playing a team game then it will be necessary for the teams to communicate amongst themselves before they send their move to the other side. However even if the teams could commit to always agreeing on their combined response and returning their move to the opposing side within 24 hours of receiving an update, it still gives the distinct possibility of CwiF being the first real-time strategy game i.e. it takes as long to play as the original war took to fight... six years, give or take a week or so. Clearly there will need to be a severe rationalisation within the CwiF PBEM turn sequence and the following proposal is meant as a starting point for discussion of that topic.

In order to prepare a Draft Sequence of Play it is necessary to assume certain points. That is not to say that those points should be implemented without further discussion (Heaven Forbid!), but rather that in order to address the topic in manageable chunks it is preferable that they should be the subject of their own Thread. (I am certain that my suggestion re: auto Naval intercept and Combat will generate many kilowatt hours of electronic discussion.) So for the moment let us presume...

* The CW and the Ge players will send out the combined move for their own team. All other players will send their own move to the CW and Ge players for consolidation and calculation.
* Naval interception and combat will be handled by the CPU although players will retain the choice of whether to intercept for each sea area. This specification can be changed at any time. (eg Until further notice the CW will intercept any and all Axis units moving through the North Sea)
* Air Combat (includes decisions re: Clearing Through and choice of Aborts and Kills) will be handled by the CPU.
* Combat results are not visible to the player who created the combat in order to avoid the temptation to reload the file and redo the moves. In a similar way, a player never knows if their Impulse triggered an End-of-Turn event.

The Game starts...
SETUP
* Allied players determine their default Naval intercepts for each sea area
* Allied Players email their setups to CW player. CW consolidates files. <... alternatively email the game file back and forth between layers to do a standard Setup sequence>
* Cw mails Game file to all Axis players
* Axis do Setup

First Impulse starts...

ATTACKER (Axis) AIR/NAVAL PHASE
* Axis declare any DOW
* Axis choose Actions (Air, Naval, Ground, Combined)
* Axis fly all Port Attack, Naval Air, Strategic Bombardment, Carpet Bombing and Ground Strike missions. < ...this includes determining Order of planes for Air-to-Air combat.>
* Axis sail all Naval missions. < ...each mission will be preprogrammed with destination, path, which sea box to move into in case of combat, choice of combat type if intercepted etc>
* Axis provisionally allocate air units to support any Naval Combats <...these units will only be committed if a combat occurs. >
* Axis Players email their moves to Ge player. Ge consolidates files.
* <CPU calculates Naval combats but results are not visible to Axis players>
* Ge mails Game file to all Allied players


DEFENDER (Allied) AIR/NAVAL PHASE
* <Allies see Axis Naval moves>
* Allies fly all Port Attack, Naval Air, Strategic Bombardment, Carpet Bombing and Ground Strike defensive intercepts. <...this includes determining Order of planes for Air-to-Air combat.>
* Allies provisionally allocate air units to support any Naval Combats <... these units will only be committed if a successful search occurs.>
* Allies can nominate discretionary Naval combats.
* Allies place CAP against anticipated Axis Air Transport and Axis Ground Support and nominate other Air units available for Defensive intercept
* Allies nominate Air units to provide defensive Ground support <...Air units are placed on standby but actual hexes are not nominated.>
* <CPU calculates results of Axis Port Attack, Naval Air, Strategic Bombardment, Carpet Bombing and Ground Strike missions but results are not visible to Allied players>
* <CPU calculates results of Naval combats but results are not visible to Allied players>
* Allied Players email their moves to CW player. CW consolidates files.
* Cw mails Game file to all Axis players


ATTACKER (Axis) GROUND PHASE
* <Axis see results of previous phase Air Combats>
* <Axis see results of previous phase Naval Combats>
* Axis Air RTB for missions from Attacker Air/Naval phase
* Axis Rail move
* Axis Land move
* Axis Air Transport <... Air Combats may occur but results will not be visible to Axis player>
* Axis Ground support
* Allied Ground support allocated by CPU <...Air Combats may occur but results will not be visible to Axis players>
* Axis Land Combat <Results will not be visible to Axis players>
* Axis Players email their moves to Ge player. Ge consolidates files.
* Ge mails Game file to all Allied players


DEFENDER (Allied) GROUND PHASE
* <Allies see results of Air/Naval/Ground combats from previous phases>
* Allies retreat/remove units as required by Combat results
* Allies Air RTB from all previous phases.
* Allies place CAP against anticipated Axis Air Supply and nominate other Air units available for Defensive intercept
* Allies place Provisional CAP for next turn <...this will be implemented only if Turn Ends and other side gains initiative for next turn>
* Allies commit for rerolling if Turn Ends and other side gains initiative for next turn.
* Allied Players email their moves to CW player. CW consolidates files.
* Cw mails Game file to all Axis players


ATTACKER (Axis) REORG PHASE
* <Axis see results of previous phase Ground Combats>
* Axis advance after combat
* Axis Air Rebase
* Axis re-org
* Axis Air supply <Air Combats may occur but results will not be visible to Axis players>
* Axis place CAP against next impulse (or next Turn) Port Attack, Naval Air, Strategic Bombardment, Carpet Bombing and Ground Strike missions.
* Axis commit for rerolling if Turn Ends and other side gains initiative for next turn.
* <CPU determines if Turn ends but does not advise Axis.>
* Axis Players email their moves to Ge player. Ge consolidates files.
* Ge mails Game file to all Allied players


<We now go onto the second impulse with the Allies as the Attacker and the Axis as the Defender>

ATTACKER (Allied) AIR/NAVAL PHASE
DEFENDER (Axis) AIR/NAVAL PHASE
ATTACKER (Allied) GROUND PHASE
DEFENDER (Axis) GROUND PHASE
ATTACKER (Allied) REORG PHASE

<...and then onto the third impulse with the Axis as the Attacker and the Allies as the Defender etc. etc.>


At some point the Turn ends and we go into a whole bunch of other Production and End-of-Turn stuff, but the important thing is that we have shrunk the 100 or so interactions down to five. I still have a whole bunch of unresolved problems with this idea. Here are some of them...
* How to spend Surprise points in Naval combat
* How to choose the destination for Naval Aborts
* How does the Defender get to choose whether to use a notional defender and/or defensive shore bombardment against an enemy amphibious invasion
* How to deal with the immense frustration of having no tactical control over my air and naval combats.

But hopefully I can now finish a PBEM game within a single lifetime.

[Fred98]

You have mentioned a team game. Perhaps it is impracticle to play a team game - except for shorter scenarios.

It seems to me a game vs one player would have the same problem. It might be that the solution, is that the 2 opponents spend 1 hour per day on-line together. To do the 'paperwork" kind of thing.

And then they log off and somebody completed their turns and sends it to the opponent.

[pmiranda]

Your idea seems quite reasonable. There's no way around it, you need to replace most "reaction" actions by AI decisions. This is OK as long as the AI doesn't do stupid things. Players should be able to provide rough guidelines to the AI, though.
I'm happy to see things are starting to take shape! [8D]

[Mziln]

The Game starts...
SETUP
* Allied players determine their default Naval intercepts for each sea area
* Allied Players email their setups to CW player. CW consolidates files. <... alternatively email the game file back and forth between layers to do a standard Setup sequence>
* Cw mails Game file to all Axis players
* Axis do Setup

As of demo version 7.x

This is a demonstarion of typical Campaign Game Start up.

Select Campaign Game or scenario.
Select optional rules.
Select or bid for sides.
Switch to Allied Player.

Allocate political points.

The United States player scraps/selects optional starting units. Sets up Convoy routes. And positions Land, Naval, and Air units within the Continental United States.

The United Soviet Socialist Republic player scraps/selects optional starting units. Sets up Convoy routes. And positions Land, Naval, and Air units within the United Soviet Socialist Republic .


Switch to Axis Player.

The Italian player scraps optional starting units. Sets up Convoy routes. And positions Land, Naval, and Air units within the Italian territories. Italy starts as a neutral power so this puts it out of the normal Axis sequence.


Switch to Allied Player.

The United Soviet Socialist Republic player positions Communist Chinese Land units within China.

The United States player scraps/selects optional Nationalist Chinese starting units. And positions Land, Naval, and Air units within China.

The Commonwealth player scraps/selects optional starting units. Sets up Convoy routes. And positions Land, Naval, and Air units within the Commonwealth territories.

The French player scraps/selects optional starting units. Sets up Convoy routes. And positions Land, Naval, and Air units within the French territories.

Switch to Axis Player.

The Japanese player scraps/selects optional starting units. Sets up Convoy routes. And positions Land, Naval, and Air units within the Japanese territories.

The German player scraps/selects optional starting units. Sets up Convoy routes. And positions Land, Naval, and Air units within Germany.

Remove Air units phase (all Axis then Allies).
Initiative determination phase.
Current Weather declaration phase.
Switch to Axis Player.

Germany declares war on Poland. This triggers a United States entry action (Axis declares war on a minor power).

Switch to Allied Player.

Align Poland with Commonwealth? If you do not then Poland will automatically surrender.

The Commonwealth player positions Polish Land, Naval, and Air units within Poland.

Switch to Axis Player.

Align Siam with the Japanese. This triggers a United States entry action (Axis aligns a minor power).

The Japanese player positions Siamese Naval units in Siam.

"Choose Actions" phase for Germany, Japan, and Italy.

Switch to Allied Player. Assign Port Attack CAP.

Switch to Axis Player.

The game begins.

Looks like quite a few e-mails just to get started. I did this this weekend trying to get a PBE-mail demo game going with a friend. Hes still reading the RaW-7m.rtf rules.

[:D] I'm in Oklahoma and I hear there are a few CWiF people in this state. [:D]

[Greyshaft]

ORIGINAL: Mziln

As of demo version 7.x

This is a demonstarion of typical Campaign Game Start up.
Select Campaign Game or scenario.
Select optional rules.
Select or bid for sides.
...
<snip>
...
Switch to Allied Player. Assign Port Attack CAP.
Switch to Axis Player.
The game begins.

Looks like quite a few e-mails just to get started.

It'll be the Combined Impulses which will be the killer but maybe there could also be some consolidation for the setup phase. Perhaps the game could come with some multiple choice setups to make it easier e.g.

CW chooses "Poland - Forward Defense" and "CW - Abandon the Med!" setups
USSR chooses "Istanbul Gambit" setup
USA chooses "Festung Oahu" setup

Choosing these setups populates the map but the players can still make minor changes as required. These choices are locked in place but not revealed to the Axis until they do their own setups. The first impulse tends to only involve Poland so it shouldn't be a problem to maintain the secrecy of the Allied setups until the Axis complete their move and send the file back to the Allies. I hate the possibility of players working through a turn to figure out their opponents setup and then scrapping the whole thing so they can redo the turn with that extra knowledge. [:-]

[Mziln]

Custom initial setups are available in the demo for the major powers. But with the starting variable unit strengths this makes adjustments inevitable.

Poland is considered a minor power and is controlled by the Commonwealth (see above startup sequence). Therefore it can't have a custom setup. It's setup has to be done manually in response to the initial German setup.


USA chooses "Festung Oahu" setup.

See Chart/Rule 13.3.2 "U.S. Entry options" - "Relocate Fleet to Pearl Harbor" 26 political points vs. Japan required.

While this may or may not be theoretically possible for the first turn. This is not a likely occurrence. It would require a Naval move due to necessary political points that would have to be added after the initial U.S. setup.

See Chart/Rule 9.4 "It's War Chart". The Pacific Fleet will be in Pearl Harbor if you want the U.S. in the war.

Rule 19.5 The Nazi-Soviet pact

USSR claims the Baltic states Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia.
USSR claims eastern Poland.
USSR claims Bessarabia (part of Rumania).
USSR claims the Finnish borderlands.

All can have detrimental effects on, or by combination even eliminate, U.S. entry into the war.

[:D] Heh heh I know your examples were just theoritical [:D]

[stewart_king]

I think that PBEM is going to be very difficult. When I did a PBEM we just did each others' interceptions, CAP placements, and decisions when/if to abort naval and air combat. Helps if you're playing with a close friend who you trust not to cheat you. Otherwise it would take forever.

The only think I could think of would be to have an AI to handle these decisions, maybe with criteria suggested by the player (e.g., abort air combat if all my fighters are destroyed/aborted, abort naval combat if the highest-numbered box has no more CV's, intercept ground strike missions with half of my available fighters, etc.). Then, each player would be in control during 'his' impulse with all out-of-impulse decisions being made by the AI. If somebody gets screwed by the AI, maybe you can have a certain number of 'mulligans' where you can go back and change the criteria for aborting naval combat or whatever.

Otherwise, to preserve control over your troops you would need to play online/via LAN.

Stewart King