Quick Question about Theatre Reinforcements

[neuromancer]

If troops land at one of the 3 theatre reionforcement points (Truk, Brisbane, Noumea), do reinforcements (ships, planes, and troops) continue to arrive? Any affect on them at all?

I'm thinking probably not, because a very obvious and cheesy tactic immediately comes to mind, but as I'm about to face a major battle at Noumea, I am dying to know!

Thanks for your help.

[LargeSlowTarget]

Ship, troop and aircraft reinforcements as well as supplies will continue to arrive as long as the enemy is in possession of his base, regardless how many troops you have in the base hex. I have tried to capture Noumea in a PBEM, but wasn't able to run in enough troops to capture it before the arrival of ground reinforcements at Noumea put an end to my high hopes... You must act early, quick and with overwhelming strength in order to succeed - later enemy ground troops and LBA are just tooo numerous. I think there is an AAR about an attempt to capture Noumea in the After Action subforum.

[2ndACR]

If the IJN capture Noumea, you will not recieve reinforcments until you recapture it.

Same for Truk or Brisbane. At least that is my understanding.

[neuromancer]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Ship, troop and aircraft reinforcements as well as supplies will continue to arrive as long as the enemy is in possession of his base, regardless how many troops you have in the base hex.

Excellant... I may just be able to survive this after all! Although it is going to be damn bloody.

You must act early, quick and with overwhelming strength in order to succeed

What would you consider 'overwhelming strength'?

I think there is an AAR about an attempt to capture Noumea in the After Action subforum.

Another one is in progress...

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: neuromancer
What would you consider 'overwhelming strength'?

For each enemy Rgt I recommend three of your own - which usually means that you have to use everything you have. Here is a list I remembered well from an old post by von Murrin:

When in doubt, throw every division you have at it.

My personal invasion "trigger" numbers for the big Japanese bases:

Shortlands: 4ID + Support.
Rabaul: 6ID + Support.
Kavieng: 5-7ID + Support. Depends on the previous two.

Allied for good measure:

Luganville: 4ID + Support
Noumea: The kitchen sink
Townsville: 3ID pre-11/42; post-11/42 Impossible?
Brisbane: Impossible?

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: neuromancer
Excellant... I may just be able to survive this after all! Although it is going to be damn bloody.

So you are actually defending Noumea against the Japanese? No worries, it is very hard for the Japanese to sustain a major operation so far away from their supply source at Truk. One word: fuel. Japan simply doesn't has enough tankers in UV to keep the fleet operating down there for long. I know - I tried and failed. I wouldn't say it is impossible to capture Noumea, and some players may even routinely manage to do so (Mogami?), but if the Allies make no mistakes, Noumea should hold out. Good luck.

[neuromancer]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
So you are actually defending Noumea against the Japanese? No worries, it is very hard for the Japanese to sustain a major operation so far away from their supply source at Truk. One word: fuel. Japan simply doesn't has enough tankers in UV to keep the fleet operating down there for long.

He's thrown the kitchen sink at it, fleet wise. But he doesn't have 3 to 1 ratio land wise. Even if 2 regiments weren't at other places, he's got 5 to 2 (I had split up the Americal, wish I hadn't now). Although one of those two is an armoured regiment (which I hope will be a tough nut to crack).

If I can hold out long enough, I think the reinforcements that are coming will tip the balance. I won't say how long 'long enough' is though (the walls have ears... sh!)
[:-]

But this is definitely going to be bloody! I probably won't be in a position to launch a counter operation for a while. I'm throwing everything I can at him, and in between his air cover and surface assets, they are getting pretty chewed up.

But yes, the question is, how long can he keep at it?

I wouldn't say it is impossible to capture Noumea, and some players may even routinely manage to do so (Mogami?)

Well, he is something of an inhuman legend at this game though.

but if the Allies make no mistakes, Noumea should hold out.

[X(]
NO MISTAKES! Oh my God! I'm screwed!
I make more blasted mistakes than you can count! Just ask Lexington and Yorktown.

Honestly I thought it was Game Over, but it sounds like Its not quite that bad.

Good luck.

[:D]

Thanks, I think I'm going to need it!

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

When in doubt, throw every division you have at it.

My personal invasion "trigger" numbers for the big Japanese bases:

Shortlands: 4ID + Support.
Rabaul: 6ID + Support.
Kavieng: 5-7ID + Support. Depends on the previous two.

Allied for good measure:

Luganville: 4ID + Support
Noumea: The kitchen sink
Townsville: 3ID pre-11/42; post-11/42 Impossible?
Brisbane: Impossible?

My own experience shows that as Brisbane is an "impossible" target, it is often the easiest to take. When the Japan is in the position to launch an attack on Australia or Noumea, usually once he had naval supremacy, most Allied players will reinforce Townsville and Noumea. My own strategy in this case is to land the kitchen sink in Brisbane, with one division in Rockhampton if the target is lightly defended (as it is probably). Or to land the whole kitchen in Rockhampton and then march and land a second wave to Brisbane.

[neuromancer]

Turns out he's got 5 to 2 at Noumea, with 2 (apparently partial) regiments at the other beaches. And naturally as one of those is armour, his advantage numbers wise is huge. The question is going to be what my armour can do. Probably have to try some deliberate attacks so the armour can do their thing.

I've got reinforcements coming in. I absolutely LOVE the C47. The only problem is that they cannot move the 105 and 155 howitzers.

I'll have to try some Fast Transport runs (heh, accidentally faked him out on a FT today). And then there is the pending reinforcements. Fresh troops in a few days. But will I hold until then? Will it be enough?


BTW: I am NOT doing scenario 19 again any time soon! Maybe the extra IJN advantage is necessary against a veteran Allied player, but against a mistake prone n00b like me, its just humiliating.

[LordHawke]

Hi All,

Now that Noumea has been fairly won, I can show my hand and join the discussion.

ORIGINAL: neuromancer
Turns out he's got 5 to 2 at Noumea, with 2 (apparently partial) regiments at the other beaches. And naturally as one of those is armour, his advantage numbers wise is huge. The question is going to be what my armour can do. Probably have to try some deliberate attacks so the armour can do their thing.

A few things here. Actually, I used an SNLF for the Tomo assault, and a recon regt for Goro. The entire Noumea assault was undertaken by 5 complete infantry regiments and artillery as well. It was NOT the kitchen sink (but nearly is). FYI I still have some infantry in reserve in my rear.

My plan was simple. My recon planes may have reported neuro's ships incorrectly (VERY incorrectly as it turns out), but they were spot on for his LCUs. Once I saw that he was only defending Noumea with 1 regt, I planned Operation Cormorant immediately. The commando missions 2 weeks back were the go-no-go decision. I had to launch a mission to Luganville, but only as a red herring. I was hoping he wouldn't see the weakness in his setup. With 5 regiments, I had a fair chance to take Noumea down fast against 1, maybe 2 regiments. I could not afford the same kind of attrition that happened at my PM battle. That dragged out nearly 3 weeks. And then I would've had to throw in the kitchen sink because once I commited to Noumea, there was no turning back.

I couldn't have invaded Australia. Too much risk. I've taken Cairns and Cooktown against the AI, but then I was stuck against a fully armed and ready Townsville (7 regts!).

Btw, I read somewhere that it doesn't really matter whether its grunts or tanks attacking that matter. Only Combat Value does.

Lesson learnt (for myself a well): Keep the Americal in Noumea until 1st Marine arrives.

ORIGINAL: neuromancer
I've got reinforcements coming in. I absolutely LOVE the C47. The only problem is that they cannot move the 105 and 155 howitzers.

I'll have to try some Fast Transport runs (heh, accidentally faked him out on a FT today). And then there is the pending reinforcements. Fresh troops in a few days. But will I hold until then? Will it be enough?

Oh, ok. Fake run. My cruiser force was still in Noumea. 'Nuff said. [:D]

Actually that's the key to a Noumea attack. There's only a small window to do it. You cannot imagine the difficulties I had trying to coordinate all my naval resources to the Coral Sea. If I went afap, I would've been strung out and vulnerable to CV hit-and-run. So I had to form the 'Death Star' (CVs, Surface force, transports in one hex) and force my way down. Again, in order to try to convince neuro that it was just a raid (and also not reveal my intentions too early), I took a roundabout route S down Coral Sea, then SE to Noumea. That lost me about 2 days. But it meant that neuro only realized my objective was Noumea with 5 days to landfall (still thought it might be just a raid), and only saw my transports the next day (and knew I was going for the kill).

Now, I'm guessing it's just a few more days before elements of 1st Marines arrive. The odds were 3-1 when Noumea fell. One more fresh Allied regt could've made all the difference. I would've been out on a limb, carriers all beat up for nothing, transports having to run the gauntlet of LBA to get home, 5 regiments stuck on New Caledonia. That nightmare's been keeping me awake all night this past 2 weeks.

As I've explained, once I commited, there was no turning back. It's a long way back to Rabaul from Noumea.

ORIGINAL: neuromancer
BTW: I am NOT doing scenario 19 again any time soon! Maybe the extra IJN advantage is necessary against a veteran Allied player, but against a mistake prone n00b like me, its just humiliating.

Come come neuro. You fought the good fight. [;)] It really could've gone either way. If you wanna know, I'm playing Sc19 Allied against JC concurrently, and yes, Yorktown and Lexington have been lost on my watch as well. But I'm taking the Noumea lesson from you. [&o]

If you don't believe me, why don't you play the IJN then? It's fun, lost of ships and everything else. But organizing all that into a cohesive strategic framework is really hard work. [8|]

[LordHawke]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

If the IJN capture Noumea, you will not recieve reinforcments until you recapture it.

Same for Truk or Brisbane. At least that is my understanding.

Oh yes, and THAT, btw, is the ONLY justification for a Noumea attack. It's the ultimate IJN objective. Australia gets cutoff. No USN reinforcements. [:D]

Von Murrin's numbers are pretty good. All the more reason to defend all those key objectives with MORE than what you believe your opponent can (or will) throw at you.

[neuromancer]

I was pathetic. Its that simple.

Yes, I've learned some important lessons here. But I was just so lame.


Some people go on about how PBEM 'is the only way to play', but I would like to point out why I think a lot of people don't do it. And that is simply that we aren't that good. The AI in this game may be pretty lackluster, but at least against the AI we don't get completely humiliated!

LordHawke mnentioned being afraid that I would do hit and runs on him as he came south, but as was pointed out, I didn't even detect him until he was pretty close, and he was almost ready to land before I detected more than a couple of his transports. But even if I had, I don't even know HOW I would have done a 'hit and run' on him!

If my two carriers had gotten anywhere NEAR him, the Death Star would have crushed them with contemptable ease, and taken at best minor damage in return. Net gain, two carriers down, all the planes lost, and at best I might have made an even trade on his carriers.

The only thing I could have done differently (at least in that regard) is had the Americal all at Noumea, accepted that Luganville would fall any time he wanted it, and wait.

At least thats all I can see. Other players can probably do better, but I simply suck.


As for the IJN. I honestly have no interest to play them. And I'm sure I can lose with them too.

[neuromancer]

BTW: In the AAR thread "battling n00bs" some nice people have been assuring me that I am not alone in disasterous early PBEM games.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: neuromancer

BTW: In the AAR thread "battling n00bs" some nice people have been assuring me that I am not alone in disasterous early PBEM games.

You keep up the "nice people" stuff, and you're setting yourself up for a slander suit.

[neuromancer]

[:D]

I'm sorry.

"Some nice people ave been assuring me that I am not alone in disasterous early PBEM games. Pasternakski was saying it too, but he's a big meanie."

That better?
[;)]

[sven6345789]

actually this reminds me of leaving a little more troops at Truk.
Has anyone ever tried to in invade Truk early in the game?
if The Japanese have most of their CV's somewhere in the PM or Australia area, you might just catch them of guard. Question is wether you can hold it since just about everything he has will come at you. also resupply is probably rather difficult

[LargeSlowTarget]

I'm sorry you didn't make it, neuromancer. And sorry if I have raised your hopes about the prospects of holding Noumea. You know, negative expectations yield negative results, positive expectations yield negative results...

[neuromancer]

No worries LST, I screwed up, it was my fault. 1 infantry and 1 armour regiment just wasn't enough to hold Noumea.

Next time all of the Americal division stays on Noumea. Any garrison force for Luganville will have to come from Australia (but without leaving Brisbane a tempting target, although losing Brisbane is less of an immediate disaster).

[LordHawke]

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

actually this reminds me of leaving a little more troops at Truk.
Has anyone ever tried to in invade Truk early in the game?
if The Japanese have most of their CV's somewhere in the PM or Australia area, you might just catch them of guard. Question is wether you can hold it since just about everything he has will come at you. also resupply is probably rather difficult

This was a contingency I considered when planning the Noumea invasion. What if neuro caught on to my plan and attempted to invade Truk while I did Noumea? [&:]

If I assume we both succeed in capturing our objectives, I still come out one up. I had the resources (esp. CVs and transports) to counterinvade. And with the Solomons virtually a Japanese lake, he'd have to go via Santa Cruz to home. I'd plan for a massive CV battle there and then. [:D]

In any case, I still had 2 regts from 38th Div at Truk, which I thought ample insurance against such a move. [;)]

In hindsight, the fact that the Allied player needs Noumea for USN reinforcements means he must defend it at all costs. If that means losing Cairns, Cooktown, even Luganville and Efate, so be it. Only then, can he exact sweet revenge come 1943 (LBA, Corsairs, Lightningsl, Essex class, Seabees, Marines, whoa nelly! [X(]).

[neuromancer]

I had considered a counter-invasion once I realized where the hammer was going to fall - I had the 3rd Aus division and adequate lift to move it - but decided that holding it might be impossible, and I did not have enough firepower to cover it. And in hindsight, the 3rd wouldn't have been enough to take it anyway.

And yes, with this firm beating in mind, I have definitely re-evaluated my ground deployment! But you are right, when it comes right down to it, the only Bases That Must Be Defended are Brisbane and Noumea. Although I don't really think you want IJN troops in Townsville or Rockhampton either.

But if you can hold those two spots against all comers, then eventually you can retake everything else. Except of course the obvious problem is whether you will have adequate time to roll back the IJN from everywhere you sacrificed.