Static units - blowing bridges

[TMO]

On p 73 of the manual the following is stated:

The probability of successfully blowing the crossing is reduced if ... or is a static unit.

All the order icons are greyed out for static units - you can't order a static unit to blow a bridge at all. In fact you can't order a static unit to do anything. It seems to me that you ought to be able to order it to deny a crossing, rest, reorganise, fire, bombard or change its rate of fire. Any thoughts?

Regards

Tim

[Tzar007]

I know what you mean. There is quite a few static units on the German side, usually Luftwaffe or FJ garrisons (Mook Right Hook scenario for example). The way I see it is that those units are usually AA units with stationary guns that CAN'T be moved or ordered to do much.

They do however retreat when overrun, but then I guess it's only the staff that manages to flee, although I haven't checked if they indeed lose their AA guns.

[KNac007]

Just note that when you have a deny crossing objective and you have units within the perimeter they will try to blow the objective whatever order you gave (unless it's secure crossing I suppose), even if they are waiting I think they will try. Stationary untis included, but their possibilities are very low of doing it.

So don't worry bout them trying, actually I think that once! (I think in the ERindhoven scenario) one static unit managed to blow one of the bridges, hehe.

[Mr.Frag]

The deny order means prepare the bridge for demolition, not blow the bridge. Any unit will blow the bridge if it is prepped, but the odds are better if the unit is an engineer type.

[TMO]

Thanks for the replies - but I'm not sure Mr Frag. Again, on p73 it states:

...you cannot order your forces directly to blow a bridge. Instead you are limited to ordering them to Deny the crossing.

Later it says:

If threatened by superior enemy forces, they will atempt to blow the bridge.

Doesn't this imply that in order for the bridge to be blown the unit has to have received a deny a crossing order? My question still stands; if the icons are greyed out, a static unit can't be given a deny bridge order and so can't blow the crossing without the intervention of a mobile unit.

We need someone from PG to help on this one.

Tim

[EricGuitarJames]

I think the static bridge garrisons have the 'Deny Crossing' hard coded into them. After all, they are the garrison and that is what they are expected to do. I would say that I would like the option of cancelling that particular order (or 'un-priming' the bridge) since I find it hinders my strategy in some of the scenarios[;)].

[KNac007]

I would sy that if there is a "Deny Cross" Objective (not order for particulr unit) ny unit withing the perimeter of the objective and the bridge will try to blow it up, even if you haven't ordered a "deny crossing" order.

We will have to wait for the developers for an anwer

[Arjuna]

Eric's correct. Static units by default will attempt to blow a primed crossing if threatened by the enemy. I realise that at time you may not want this to happen. However, we deliberately prevented orders being given to static units to avoid a whole lot of other problems. It's a bit of a trade off. If you order a non-static force to Secure the crossing, then they should unprime it. Static units won't try and prime the bridge. So that's the work around.

[Golf33]

Also, static units do not move when they retreat or rout - they simply cower in place until they surrender or are destroyed.

Most of the German garrison units are not actually static - you will see them move around and respond to orders as they are just ordinary units. There are static inf and lt flak platoons at several of the bridges, but any company size units are not static. The only static units in the estabs in fact are a LW static lt flak pl and an army static inf pl.

Regards
33

[Tzar007]

Just 2 questions on primed bridges and the Deny Crossing order to make everything clear in my mind:

1) I am the Germans, I have a primed bridge. If I do not assign a Deny Crossing order to the unit(s) protecting it (let's say just a Defend order near the bridge), that basically means my unit will NEVER attempt to blow it, right?

2) And to prime a bridge, I absolutely need to use the Deny Crossing order to get the priming process underway?

[Golf33]

ORIGINAL: Tzar007

1) I am the Germans, I have a primed bridge. If I do not assign a Deny Crossing order to the unit(s) protecting it (let's say just a Defend order near the bridge), that basically means my unit will NEVER attempt to blow it, right?

Yes, unless you have a static inf pl or static flak pl at the bridge. Static units within range of a primed bridge that is covered by a Deny Crossing objective will always attempt to blow the bridge if it is threatened. Non-static units will only attempt to blow or prime a bridge if they have been ordered to by the player, they are within 500m of the crossing, and the enemy is threatening the crossing.

2) And to prime a bridge, I absolutely need to use the Deny Crossing order to get the priming process underway?

Yes. To get a unit to prime a crossing you need to give a Deny Crossing order to an engineer unit. To successfully prime the crossing the engineer unit must be within 500m of the crossing, must be deployed and IIRC must also be unsuppressed.

Non-engineer units cannot prime crossings. Non-engineer units can unprime crossings but they are not as fast at this as engineer units.

Regards
33

[TMO]

Thanks everyone - much clearer now. Sorry to be a pain but one last question: does a Deny Crossing Objective symbol over a crossing mean anything? It appears over both primed and unprimed crossings. Is it any different to a regular Objective symbol?

Tim

[Golf33]

Sorry mate, you've lost me there. Could you post a cropped screenshot so I can see the symbol you are talking about?

Thanks
33

[Mr.Frag]

Are you talking about the Build/Upgrade bridge icon? I always get the two mixed up when flustered with combat. [:D]

Or this: (this is just telling you the VP is a protect crossing type)

[TMO]

Steve

If I new how to do it I would - the bridge objective icon I see when playing as the Germans in Nijmegen historical along the Maas-Waal canal and Maas river are the 'deny crossing' command icon in blue on white background. All other objective icons in the scenario are the one shown on p60 in the manual. Will email you a saved game so you can have a look.

Tim

[Mr.Frag]

Tim, you are talking about this: (scenario editor manual)

[TMO]

Mr Frag

Yes - the objective symbol I see is the one on the extreme right (Deny Crossing) but in blue on a white background. Actually, looking at the image, I hadn't noticed there were four different objective symbols. What's the difference between them?

Tim

[Mr.Frag]

Yep, those are the VP rules behind the VP. It governs how the points can be awarded. Not real sure as I haven't played much with the editor, but I assume that each type has a different set of rules such as a secure crossing gets no points if blown until reconstructed and a deny crossing gets full points if blown etc...

[Golf33]

From the picture above, in order, starting at the left:

Defend: This is achieved by having any unit within the objective radius. You won't often see this one as it's usually used to indicate tactically important ground to the AI, with no score attached, so it doesn't show up in the game.

Secure: This is achieved by having a 10:1 ratio of friendly to enemy combat power within the objective radius. Retreating and routing units are not included when calculating the ratio.

Secure Crossing: This is achieved by having the same ratio of combat power within the radius as per the Secure objective type, and also keeping the bridge intact.

Deny Crossing: This is achieved by having the same ratio of combat power within the radius as per the Secure objective type while the bridge is intact, or by successfully destroying the bridge and preventing a new one being constructed.

There is one more objective type that you will only see sometimes in the game: it looks like the secure crossing icon but instead of the square bracket over the top, it has a hammer symbol on the side. If the bridge gets blown, your Secure Crossing objective will turn into this one. This is the Construct Crossing objective and to achieve it you need to achieve a 10:1 ratio, as for the Secure objective, and you need to successfully construct a bridge at the crossing.

Regards
33

[Matt Erickson]

Well I don't know about you guys but I am not too good at blowing bridges,I had one game where I actually blew all three bridges over the willhamena canal (enidhoven map) I mean I had a company dug in next to bridge with deny crossing,but know go,do your odds stay the same or get better if you have a unit between the bridge an a enemy unit,or do you get the same odds if say your unit is on the other side of bridge with the deny order in effect?