Artillery Units That Cannot Bombard

[EricGuitarJames]

It wouldn't surprise me if this has come up before but I've noticed whilst playing 'Eindhoven Double-Drop' as the Germans there are several German artillery units that do not have a 'bombard' value. I checked the equipment list in case they were artillery in name only (rushed into combat without guns etc.) but no, there were the 75, 105 and 155mm guns. So, Panther, why can they not bombard?

[Arjuna]

I think if you look closely they will be "Infantry Guns" which invariable were employed in the direct fire role to demolish enemy strong points and the like. The Germans usually had a Bty of these at Regiment level in the Infantry and PG Regiments. They come in towed and self propelled versions. They were rarely employed in indirect fire mode.

[EricGuitarJames]

Cheers Dave, glad that one is cleared up. Just that when I'm issuing orders I see the 'artillery' symbol and automatically detach them from their parent unit only to realise later that this was a pointless exercise. Maybe the symbol could be changed[;)] - wishes, wishes[:)]

[Arjuna]

Yeh good point. Got a suggested symbol in mind?

[EricGuitarJames]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Yeh good point. Got a suggested symbol in mind?

Something like an 'old style' cannon maybe (barrel points straight ahead rather than up signifying direct fire only), but then it would need to look substantially different to the AT gun symbol. I'll think about it[;)]

[KNac007]

I don't know if there is a NATO symbol for such kind of units, I think no. There is a German symbol but, well, german military symbols are "strange" if you haven't studied them a little bit.

However, what's the best way to employ these? "Fire" or just "defend"? While on the attack, how will the AI employ them? Will they stop and shot an stuborn enemy unit?

[Golf33]

Direct-fire artillery like Inf Guns should advance to where they can engage the enemy, then deploy and do so. They may also be positioned up front in defence where they can use their range and firepower to best advantage, although at the cost of being a bit more vulnerable to enemy fire.

I normally leave them under command of their usual HQ but in a smaller scenario I might position them individually and use Defend with Aggro/ROF = Max/Rapid or even use Fire orders to get them cranking in support of an attack.

Regards
33

[MadScot]

NATO symbol - or rather NATO style, not sure it's STANAG official - might be an infantry symbol - X - with the dot at the point of the X. (Infantry-gun combo) Alternatively, Ive seen the inf "X" with a thick solid bar down one side of the box for infantry support weapons.

[Golf33]

Hmmm... that last one might be possible.

What about mortars? We just used to draw mortar platoons as a standard infantry platoon symbol and write "MOR" next to them, mind you that was before they changed to the new symbology which is just a dog's breakfast all around. Not to mention that we don't have the capability to add text outside the symbol in HTTR or anything, we are limited to the little white or black square in the top left of the icon.

Regards
33

[MadScot]

if you could get that fancy, how about an open dot for mortars and closed for tube arty, or vice versa. As long as it wasnt too big (to get confused with armour) it might work?

What does STANAG 2019 suggest? I suspect nothing, my summary is mute.

[KNac007]

The new NATO symbols are just weird, they remind me of the German ones in WWII.

The old NATO style or just "old west occident military" style... you can use the equipment indicators instead of unit indicators (don't know how old it is but I know they exist, just do a search in "mighty" Google ).

For example, the mortar one it's a dote (point? mispelling?) in the base, then a vertical arrow. The "gun" one are 3 vertical lines, being the 2 on the sides shorter and centered all 3 in a horizontal axis, like this but vertial:

____
________
____

Don't know...

There was a very good site "http://www.freeport-tech.com/WWII/" with symbols for western allies and germans included but it seems dead now.

EDIT: indeed, thanks to Steve links he gave in other thread, that site seems to have been archived by someone...
here is the direct link to the symbols page for allies "http://web.archive.org/web/200210030226 ... mbols.html"

The infantry gun symbol is an X (like infantry) with a dot in the middle, as MadScot has stated before.

[MadScot]

Those equipment symbols you mention are also in STANAG 2019 I believe - and, by the way, you can add horizontal bars to the "mortar arrow" or "gun centre line" to indicate weight of the piece - none is "light", one is "medium" and two i s"heavy".

[Arjuna]

Can someone provide a picture for us?

[Golf33]

Dave,

the issue here isn't so much the graphics themselves - I know most of the equipment symbols and can find any others without too much trouble - the problem is fitting them in the teeny tiny little box we have to work with!

Regards
33

[Golf33]

The WWII Armed Forces Orders of Battle site is back online actually. You can find it here:

http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/index.htm

I think there may be a few minor mistakes here and there (although it depends rather on which sources you believe to start with of course) but it's nonetheless excellent work. Dr Niehorster certainly has been a prolific and valuable contributor to military history and wargaming over the years.

Regards
33

[KNac007]

Yes, his studies about armored/mechanized and motorized german forces are a gold mine. Thanks for the URL.

However, I think the picture can be included in the current unit box, afterall is just an infantry symbol with a dot in the middle.