Point Of Attack 2

[general billy]

Hi, fellow HTTR players

I have just been shown the link to a game called point of attack 2, and all I can say it seems very similar to HTTR,
basically im very tempted in buying it,

http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/POA2/POA2b.html


http://www.wargamer.com/reviews/point_o ... efault.asp


now the question is, has any fellow HTTR players tried it out or have it?
And what do they think about it? How does it compare to HTTR?

Reading the reviews shows that it seems to be very powerful and realistic game, i mean they saying u need a 2500Mhz minimum machine to run it [X(]

thanks

Bill

[MarkShot]

Thanks for the heads up. It looks interesting.

I downloaded the manual, but obviously haven't read it.

In reading the features and review, it looks like an interesting game, but I don't really see much similarity with HTTR beyond game play on a 2D map. My reasoning:

(1) Scope: HTTR is much broader and higher level. This seems to be less broad and down to the squad and AFV platoon.

(2) Different time period and weapons systems.

(3) Single level player interface. Meaning doesn't have an AI chain of command with a multi-level interface and you command at any level.

(4) WEGO system as opposed to continuous time. This is fine when balanced with the scope of a given game. Given HTTR's ability to fluidly macro/micro manage as the situation calls for it and the player sees fit, WEGO would not work to well with HTTR (hard to find an appropriate turn length).

---

None of the above is a criticism of the product. It may well be a superb experience, but I just don't see being a very similar experience.

[MarkShot]

By the way, if you get it let us know what you think of it.

Find out if it is really playable at 2.53GHz as that is what I have.

By the way, burning a lot of CPU cycles doesn't really prove anything. I've managed enough programmers capable of burning all available CPU cycles and more to know that. Sometimes, it just means it's time to find some more skillful programmers.

Thanks.

[HercMighty]

POA2 is nothing like HTTR.

1. POA2 is modern equipment
2. POA2 is turned based

It is supposed to be like HTTR in the fact that you are supposed to play high up the chain of command and let the AI move and issue orders to your people. Though I still feel there are a lot of issues gameplay wise.

The FOW rules are really complex to. Except for your HQ as units move around you loose sight and then don't really know if your units current position is correct. And it get's even more complex with enemy units. You also do not have the nice interface with issue orders, and really there are no orders. You can not tell a group to attack or defend to recon or probe. You also don't really have any parameters that you can set for what type of route, aggression and such.

I think the game has a lot of potential, but on the other hand has a lot of work that needs to be done. The only reason you need a 2.5ghz processor is because the amount of math the game does to resolve combat. Until the gameplay is fixed though it really doesn't matter.

Duscussion is pretty heavy here right now:

http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=52

[Maddog]

Not sure I would compare POA-2 to HTTR, as they are two very different pieces of software. For starters, POA-2 is modern day only at present. HPS has added several new nationalities lately, but they are all modern day. I would also mention that POA-2 has a brutal learning curve. If you don't know much about military acronyms and operations, you could find the learning curve to be a little too steep. This is no beer&pretzels wargame, it's a hardcore simulator. HTTR is a great wargame and has a lot of features built in to make the game intuitive and reasonably easy to grasp. POA-2 still has some teething issues and the interface can be a bit cumbersome.

As for the system requirements, several players are using it with no problems on less than cutting edge computers. The key is to stick to the smaller scenarios. Even on my Alienware rig, this game can be a serious hog in larger engagements.

Having said all that, would I suggest getting it? Read the review: http://www.warfarehq.com/reviews/poa2.shtml

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: HercMighty

POA2 is nothing like HTTR.

Amen to that.

In all honesty, I'd only recommend PoA 2 if you have an interest (perhaps a professional interest) in modern warfare verging on the obsessional. For anyone else, it just ain't much fun.

As to processor requirements (I've had no troubles with an Athlon 2200+), there's nothing real-time so the only penalty you'll pay for not having a 2.5 gig plus is having to wait longer. Kill some of the options (that you won't miss in all honesty), and it's not a huge problem.

I do wonder though, if "doing the math" is really an answer. Most modern games need the processor power (in conjunction with the GPU) for real-time graphics rendering. PoA 2 doesn't have that problem, and I really don't see what else it could be doing. You tend to forget how much raw number-crunching power a 2.5 gig processor represents, and in all honesty even with the math PoA 2 is supposed to be doing a 2.5 should be more than enough to run two or three games (of PoA 2) at once. I do rather smell sloppy programming, I'm afraid.

Don's review is right on the money. The only thing I disagree with slightly is the comments on ADC 2 - personally I think needing to spend another $45 dollars for a map editor (albeit one that does have other uses) is outrageous. It should have been bundled with the game, or with a sensible offer to owners, say $10-15. ADC 2 is a fairly old piece of software; I don't have it but I assume it would be of suitable size for a download option, especially if stripped of the stuff not necessary for PoA 2.

[Tzar007]

I have never played a real modern military simulator, so a couple of weeks ago I was considering buying POA2 since it certainly sounds very detailed and interesting. However, after reading comments and reviews on the Warfare HQ POA2 forum, I decided to err on the careful side and postpone my purchase for now for three reasons: complexity of the game, unstability of the game, and lack of scenarios.

Regarding complexity, I can deal with it, but it takes time to go through that huge POA2 manual that I downloaded (by the way, is there any tutorial coming with the game?)

Regarding unstability, POA2 seemed to be very unstable. Is it still the case or it has improved to a point where this isn't really a problem?

Regarding scenarios, are the scenarios included in the game enough to keep you busy for a while?

[HercMighty]

There is no tutorial.

The manual in the way of explaining how to play is a joke. It does go into great deal about what is happening behind the scenes though.

There are a lot less crashes as far as stability goes. But there is still a lot of gameplay issues as far as I am concerned that are a lot harder to nail down.

[JeF]

According to the short review in Vae Victis magazine, POA2 comes with 7 (seven!) scenarios. But this must be a mistake. [;)]

According to the screenshots I saw till now, the game seems horribly detailled. It is hexbased, but it looks like an hex is very very small. Lots of hexes and potentially lots of units mean ... potentially lots of computation.

Clearly not to be compared with HTTR and certainly not for me.

To each his own.

JeF.

[MarkShot]

JeF,

Haven't heard from you in a while.

I was worried that the Germans were holding you prisoner in Loenen. Glad to see that you are free.

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: Tzar007

Regarding complexity, I can deal with it, but it takes time to go through that huge POA2 manual that I downloaded (by the way, is there any tutorial coming with the game?)

Regarding unstability, POA2 seemed to be very unstable. Is it still the case or it has improved to a point where this isn't really a problem?

Regarding scenarios, are the scenarios included in the game enough to keep you busy for a while?

There IS a tutorial scenario. The Wargamer review describes it's limitations (mainly that it really does only cover the absolute basics), but I actually found it quite helpful.

I havn't had any stability problems with it, although others certainly have.

On scenarios, if you get into the game, probably yes. There are 12 scenarios now (download the rest from the HPS site), and a few new maps.

[Fallschirmjager]

I remember playing the first one and it was so cryptic and confusing that I never got into it. It appears that they havnt cleaned up the interface or helped with the massive learning curve any. No excuse for that in this day and age of computer gaming.

[Crimguy]

My brother bought it when first released. Said it was buggy as hell. Brought it over to me to keep in February. I tried it, and found my poor XP1600 couldn't keep up. Turns took 5-10 minutes. Also, the pics are deceiving - it is hex-based. Not to mention I got tons of C++ errors under Win2k, and the occasional crash.

I patched it a couple of months ago, and now it freezes up nonstop. It is unplayable, and I mailed it back to my brother.

Unlike Don Maddox over at WarefareHQ (a terrific site btw), I can't be quite so diplomatic about this game. It is IMHO a POS, plain and simple. And what's particularly painful is that it has tons of potential in the details dept.

[Arjuna]

So who'se for a modern version of HTTR?[;)]

[HercMighty]

I think you would find the line to be really long.

[SeaMonkey]

Right now Dave, I'd just settle for BofB, with the supply rules. But before the modern one you've got to do the North African campaign (campaign feature). Now repeat after me "PanzerArmee Afrika"[&o].

[HercMighty]

Actually going all the way through the Normandy release is a must. A lot of good ideas and will lay a lot of the ground work for all other versions including a modern setting.

[Trigger Happy]

ORIGINAL: SeaMonkey

Right now Dave, I'd just settle for BofB, with the supply rules. But before the modern one you've got to do the North African campaign (campaign feature). Now repeat after me "PanzerArmee Afrika"[&o].

I would list WWII AA games much higher than modern ones on my priority list.

About POA2, i don't have an much of an opinion on the game as i have not read much about it, but if you're interested in modern wargames, I say get TacOps 4 instead. I have it. For 30 bucks, you'll get a quality game for half the price of POA2 and lots of fun. Even novices can have fun playing it.
There's a demo here

[Adam Parker]

Though my policy is never to criticize a game I don't own, my first impression of POA2 was that it was a game for people with more brain cells than I.

Being that it's a commercial release of a military project I consider the game one for the real grognard - who loved the minutae of the original pre-John Tiller HPS games of Tigers in the Snow and Panthers on the Prowl or those with some serious military experience looking for a hobby outlet.

Then again, as a student of logistics and military planning, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it for its interactive teaching through play.

I believe the scen offering is fairly restricted as mentioned above awaiting those with a DYO inclination.

Adam.

[Makoto]

So who'se for a modern version of HTTR?

I'd go for a Napoleon or Civil Ware era game first. [:D]