'Extended Unoffical Titan Database' - Beta

[Sleeping_Dragon]

Here's my new 'extended' titan database; totally unoffical. I've added player-designed titans that have been posted here on the forums over an extended time as well as some of my own to increase the number of titans in each wieght class to 45. This is my personal database using the 'unoffical titan database' as a starting point. Main focus was to increase the number of titans in the wieght catagories, keep the database 'diverse', and 'AI-friendly'. Also tweaked a few of the pre-existing designs, nothing major, mainly added shields to a couple of assaults, a minor heat tweak here-or-there, and 'fixed' my Stonewall so that I can actually win with it occasionally. [:D]

I'd really like to thank everyone that has posted designs and made comments on other's designs in these forums. As for other's designs that I've added to my database some have been 'tweaked' and a fair amount of them have had name changes, including some of my own.

I'm sure there is going to be room for improvement with what I've added, so this is a beta. Am looking forward to other's comments, suggestions, compliants as to anything ya'll think would make an improvement. I still have a few concerns as to weapon distributions (don't want too many similiar titans/weapon configurations in a AI accessable database) like the number of PX wielding recons and AC12 wielding heavies amoung others. ANY feed back is more than welcome.

The 'extended' unoffical titan database is attached at the bottom of this post.

To install it, move/save the the titan files (1.tos, 2.tos..etc...) from the titans folder from Matrix Games/Titans of Steel/data somewhere out of the way (always save this... just in case) and replace the 1.tos, 2.tos... files with the unzipped ones in the attachment. This will replace the database.

IF you have personal titan designs that you want to carry over to the 'extended' database, the easiest way to do this is to export all the titans you want to switch over. (click export then select ALL the titans you want to carry over, do this with each wieght class). Then swap out the titan files (1.tos, 2.tos....). And lastly click import and add all your personal designs into the 'extended database'. (another good reason to save the original .tos file, incase you forget to switch one over). Any questions just post them here and someone will be glad to answer them.



An updated Extended Titan Database is attached in a post further down

[aquietfrog]

Very nice selection of titan designs. I'm currently trying out the new ones I can spot.

btw, is there any way you can document the new stuff and changes you made? Without exerting too much effort...

[Sleeping_Dragon]

Changes I made... Nothing documented as the starting point for this was my own database which I never bothered to document changes, I'd tweak when I run across something and being organized wasn't a primary concern at the time. Some of these titans and changes and have been floating around in my database for a while. Changes to all the 'new' titans were made to try to keep the designer's intent intact, but a few changes were made to make sure heat wouldn't cause too much problem, typically armor changes, but a couple had to have weapon reductions; some just had redistibution of the systems/weapons in ways that freed up a little extra wieght, or better protected certian systems.. most of those changes were my personal call and if anyone sees anything that I've changed that they think would be better off another way PLEASE let me know, as I'm sure there are instances where this is the case. Another change I made in A LOT of submitted titans were the order which the weapons appear on the firing screen. 'Standard' order is longest range down to shortest, and if 2 weapons have the same range, the one with the fastest recycle comes 1st.

Known design changes for pre-exixting titans:
Stonewall: Major rework, now has a PC, 2xAC7
Tribesman: Modified as per Coyote's suggestions a while back
Banshee: added a lvl1 shield
Blue Dragon: added a lvl1 shield
Devastator: Increased engine to engine2, so the ECM don't turn off while running
Sodom: lost EMP, gained a lvl2 shield
Vertigo: lost 1 GMH2 rack, gained a lvl1 shield
Unknown Assault(?): major armor/HR(?) adjustment for heat problems (did this in 1-2 designs a while back and don't remember which)

New titans: Lots of changes, Most minor, but a couple major, but tried to keep designer's intent intact. The original designs can be found on the forums if you search long enough if they weren't deleted by one of the hacker attacks Matrix experienced in the past.

Here's a list of the new titans and previous names when I can remember them or find them easiliy:


Recon

Death Grip
Deimos - previously Mind Sweeper
Gauntlet - previously (?)
Jackal - previously Jackal/Bastard/Hand of Glory... used the Bastard design, but liked the name Jackal best
Lancer
Marshal - previously Marshall
Mercury
Rapier
Rogue
Tantrum - previously Little Knuckle
Thorn
Wombat - previously Rabid Weasel


Light

Butcher - previously Facelessbutcher
Frostbite
Mangler
Meteor
Phantasm
Pitbull
Racoon
Raptor
Savage
Sparrowhawk
Viper - previously (?)
Witchlight - previously Witch's light


Medium

Algol
Baelrog
Flametounge
Gurusami
Hydra - previously Hydralisk
Katana
Mantis
Nevermore
Phobos
Scarab - previously (?)
Starfire
Swashbuckler


Heavy

Aurora - previously Hinky Punk
Bitter Harvest
Blackguard
Efreet
Fenrir
Lycanthrope
Ogre
Sabertooth - previously (?)
Storm Giant
Tiger
Timberwolf
....... 1 other..... not sure which, but it's been in my database a long time... maybe Blaze?


Assaults

Armageddon - previously Coyote's Red Dragon
Athena
Duchess
Duke
Gorgoroth
Harbinger - previously Underboss
Illithid
Kastuo
Lotus - previously Crying Lotus
Red Dragon - different from Coyote's
Rhino
White Dragon - previously Silver Dragon



Current names I'm still debating about...

Algol - maybe switch name to something (better) light oriented to go along with the LR GMH/C designs (Will-'o-Wisp, Witchlight, Aurora..) Algol is a star name.., but.. just not the same kind of light.

Baelrog - Too Tolkien-ish?

Storm Giant - the 'giant series' currently only sports 1 weapon type and don't fly, but this design fits pretty well

Illithid - Too D&Dish?

Any suggestions/comments on these or others?


Current designs I'm still keeping an eye on, among others....

Blackguard - is the AI using this OK?
Illithid - is the AI using this one effectively? Is it 'scary' to fight agianst?

Comments on these and any others most appreciated.

[Coyote27]

I find it funny that about half the new designs are mine - and that half of those have either had their names changed or listed as questionable. :p

[Sleeping_Dragon]

ORIGINAL: Coyote27

I find it funny that about half the new designs are mine - and that half of those have either had their names changed or listed as questionable. :p

Well, You and Frog posted the most and had good designs so they were easy to use to fill 'gaps'. Actually, several of your designs have been in my database from the time they were originally posted, Nevermore, Butcher, Mantis, Wombat. As for names, I think mine changed as much then yours... I just had the privacy of changing them before they were posted [:D] I think 'Rhino' is the fourth name I used for that titan alone.

[aquietfrog]

I am getting creamed by the AI with the new titans and me on randoms... Never won a single battle yet.

[Coyote27]

You'll get better. Just remember to use terrain to your advantage - sit on hilltops in a longrange titan and skulk through valleys in a shortrange one, and keep groups together as much as you can.
Beside, some of the older titan designs aren't heat-optimal by any means. The worst ones are fixed but still the newer designs have an edge on them. And then a few of them just don't make much sense IMHO, like Revolver being underarmed (light with two ac4 and a ml) and Apocalypse being ridiculously overarmed (800 or so GME launchers, can only use fiveor six at once for any length of time).

[Sleeping_Dragon]

Some of the 'new' titans are IMO very good and in general have a slight advantage of more design experience (they were created earlier), but that shouldn't be that noticable. Sounds like a run of bad luck[:)]

ORIGINAL: Coyote27
Beside, some of the older titan designs aren't heat-optimal by any means. The worst ones are fixed but still the newer designs have an edge on them. And then a few of them just don't make much sense IMHO, like Revolver being underarmed (light with two ac4 and a ml) and Apocalypse being ridiculously overarmed (800 or so GME launchers, can only use fiveor six at once for any length of time).

Well, just speak up a little more[:D] Now that the worst ones are fixed the forum can turn it's attention to some of the others. Totally agree with you on the Revolver, with a chassis swap and the loss of some ammo and 1 level of JJ it can pack another AC4 and still run cold at long range and not moving. Apocalypse, assuming a failed Defensive check, can run 7GME with a heat buildup of only 2-3 degrees with staggered firings, which is how many GME it can fire while croaching and not using shields (my thoughts when I designed it); althought the AI will use shields ALOT and have noticed the AI have trouble with the design. I took a closer look at it and can trim off 1 GME (13 rnds) and increase DCS by 2 and more importantly for the remaining GMEs increase the ECM by 2! well wortht he loss of a GME rack. Also gets the LL into the head.

Any other titans come to mind off the bat that someone should take a look at?

[Sleeping_Dragon]

What? No one has any feelings that some of the older titans in the database need some tweaking? As this is my personal database I decide to 'improve' as many of the designs that I can spot, but with 225 in the database it's hard to spot all the ones that can use a tweak. Any suggestions? Titans that run too hot to be effective, too under-powered, under-gunned, over-gunned, just plain bad?

So far I've 'found' and tweaked the Katsuo, Revolver, Apocolypse, Rapier, Rifleman, Headhunter, Bad Omen, Blaze, Lycanthrope, Crossbow, Gravedigger, Battlemaster, Bombadier, and Forge and still looking...


As for some of my prievious observations...

Illithid - AI seems to be able to handle running it most of the time, Every now and agian the AI will not open up with the BRG, because of heat and opponent's shields, even when it 'should'... The EMPs and NBs just can't cut it agianst an android. This only seems to happen about 1/4 the time, so I can live with it.

Blackquard - does 'OK' but not overjoyed about it. The AI is bad about only firing 3 of it's 4 weapons, when standing still, and then all at once. The engine can only fully recharge the weapons if they stagger fire by about 3 secs. The AI does fires the 4th weapon some of the time. Since it's not recharging efficiently at least it stays cool[;)] Stays for now, unless something similiar , but better for the AI, shows up.

Anyone notice any 'basic' designs that are missing from the database? Or too many designs in a wieght class that are too similiar?

[aquietfrog]

So far all I've really noted is that the Mangler and the Butcher are two confusing titans because not only are their weapons similar, but also that their names are almost synonyms... I don't have a very good eye at nitpicking titans...

[Thorgrim]

The changes to the Tribesman make it look a lot like the Man-o'-War. I like the symmetry of the original.
The Banshee and the Blue Dragon have some resemblances too.
And the Illuminator and the Tracker.

I'm thinking of making the Mirage a pure GMH titan, swapping the LRM9 with another GMH2 and probably JP1. More focused.

Concerns about being underarmed: Revolver, Spider, Griffon, Terminator, Battle Master, Gladiator, Predator, Vicious Bite.

[Sleeping_Dragon]

Opps...

Can someone send me the 'unoffical' titan database I managed to delete my original somehow[8|] and now don't have my 'base' to compare things too...


Mangler/Butcher - good catch, looking at downgrading the engine on the Mangler by 1 and swapping the PX for a CS, Thought about double PXs on one or the other design... but plenty of double PX titans already, also on the Butcher, what do ya'll think about downgrading the JJ by 1 and increasing the BC by 2? The Butcher already has a really nice scanner so the extra +5% to hit would come in very handy for CC called shots.

Mirage - good call, done

Tribesman/Man-'o-War - designs are too similiar[:@] , but need original 'unoffical' database to remind me what was on the original Tribesman

will look at other too similiar/under-gunned titans shortly..

[Thorgrim]

Done.

Haven't checked any of the newer designs yet. I've updated the unofficial database with some of the changes, but haven't added any new designs.

Mirage: loses some firepower and the ability to bypass flares, but gets to be more player- and AI-friendly, and the ability to jump (backwards) can be really useful when rushed.

Tribesman: original had dual LLs (one LL was replaced with a SRM4). Overheats.

Stonewall: looks good except for armor in the arms - I guess you'd have to cut down on the AC ammo to increase it, which might not be a good idea.

Scorpion: the new heat diss looks good, but the reduced armor makes me hesitate.

Devastator: not sure I like giving up that DCS 5 with all that ammo around. The ECM is a pain yes, but as long as you walk or jump, and after you park, the problem goes away. The Achilles heel of a powerful design.

[Sleeping_Dragon]

Thanks.. now I have something to go back to and see what changes I made [:D]


Tribesman: What a pain of a design[;)] Old one is just too hot, Coyote's or your version works much, much better. Didn't see your version of Tribesman until after I tackled the Tribesman/Man-o'-War similiarity problem. I 'fixed' it by changing the Man-o'-War. (little less armor, lost the LRM9 and ML, swapped chassis, gained +1 engine, +1 JJ, +ECM, and a CLG, starting to look like the Storm Giant, but should play 'different' enough.)

Stonewall: Had to give up something to give it some firepower, APs in the arms seemed like the 'best' call. I actually does ok now as a support titan that can close when it has too.

Scorpion: I changed this one?[:D] Must have been the "unknown assault(?)" I mentioned in an earlier post... well ok it's not an assault...but... that's the one, it's actually pretty good now that it don't meltdown [:D] Think the increased fire rate makes up for the AP lose.

Devatator: Another pain design, a kingdom for 1 more slot! options: 1) original, EMC turns off and you get scanned while running, also just annoying to have to remember to turn the EMC back on. 2) current design in 'extended' database, lose 2 levels of DCS: ammo, 'low' DCS, boom, bad.... 3) Think I'm leaning toward this one today... tommorow may be a different story, lose 2 level of JJ, but forces engine into the LT,but atleast it can be covered with extra APs from some freed up wieght.


Similarity problems:
Tribesman/Man-o'-War: Already covered.

Banshee/Blue Dragon: has me stumped. Unless someone comes up with an option here, I'm willing to leave this case alone if people think it's a marginal case? Only other thing that crossed my mind was to put the Banshee back to a 5CLG design, but shields on opponents would be a problem....

Illuminator/Tracker: After looking over all the GM designs I think it's time for the Illuminator to go the way of the Dodo (or Vulcanoid). 'Best' replacement I came up with was a 5GME design built on the Illuminator chassis (heat is -3.79C/sec, gained a shield1 and an ECM2) and it fits pretty well as there are no heavy GME dependent designs in the wieght class. Need a new name for this one, if ayone has an idea let me know.

Undergunnered:

Terminator: not much help here, but did get a LMG into it and a better BC and more leg armor, but cost a level of shields.

Battlemaster: Already started tweaking on this one, best I could do was drop the heat by -0.32C/sec. The excellent electronics do come at a price. Agianst the 'right' oppenents it should have a easy time.

Gladiator: Gains: NB and SL, a level of ECM, and a -0.43C/sec heat improvement. Loses: 1 level of shields, 2 levels of engine, and a level of LS. Pick the weapons to use at the appropriete distances and should be ok. There are a lot of titians similiar to this one, add any weapon to it and it looks like something else.

Predator: Loses 1 level of LS, 2 levels of engine and 4 levels of Flares; Gains: -0.36C/sec in heat dissapation and 2 SRM8s

Vicious Bite: gains -0.25C/sec heat, 2 SRM4s. Loses 5AP in RT, LT, and legs and both MGs. Not much 'improvement', but some...

Any ideas on any of these are more then welcome.

[Sleeping_Dragon]

Updated beta for 'Extended' database... (download at bottom of post)

General changes listed, may be some small armor tweaks left out. (some already covered in previous post) several designs got engine reductions that could cut into thier recharge rates while moving, but only in designs where the heat dissapation couldn't keep up already.

Kastuo : increased JJ and flares, decreased scanner, flares can now be fire while prone.
Revolver: chassis change, -1 JJ, +AC4
Apocolypse: -1 GME, +2 ECM and +2 DCS
Rapier: chassis swap, armor swaps, slightly better armor, +2 BC, +1LS
Rifleman: engine -1, +2 levels of HR (firing GC and running may require delayed firing)
Headhunter: minor tweaks, +1 ECM
Bad Omen: chassis swap, -1 engine, +1 JJ, +1 ECM, +1 HR (-0.72C/sec improvement)
Blaze: - ammo, -1 engine, + HR (-0.76C/sec improvement)
Lycanthrope: - ammo, +1 Ls and some armor on CBT
Crossbow: -1 JJ, -1LS, heat improved by -0.60C/sec
Battlemaster: slight armor drop, heat improvement (-0.32C/sec)
Gravedigger: -2 MGs, lose of armor in torsos, +2 HR (improvement of -0.70C/sec)
Bombidier: -1 engine, heat improvement -0.40C/sec
Forge: chassis swap, better armor, heat improvement of -0.20C/sec
Thor: -ammo, - engine, +1 scan, +1 flare, heat improvement of -0.41C/sec
Hitman: -1 flare, slightly better armor, heat improvement of -0.28C/sec
Butcher: -1 JJ, +2 BC
Mangler: engine -1: -PX, +CS
Griffon: significantly less armor, +AC7, heat improvement (-0.28C/sec)
Raptor: -1 shields, +2 BC, +1 flare
Spider: significantly less armor, +LMG, +PX, heat improvement (-0.52C/sec)
Man-o'-War: chassis swap, +1 engive, +1 JJ, + ECM, + CLG, - LRM9, -ML
Illuminator: New design entirely based on 5 GME racks/ needs new name
Devastor: +2 DCS, -2 JJ, engine moved, extra armor over engine
Terminator: -1 shield, +LGm, +1BC, + armor on legs
Gladiator: -1 shields, -2 engine, -1 LS, +NB, +SL, +1ECM, heat improvement (-0.43C/sec)
Predator: -1 LS, -2 engine, -4 flare, +2 SRM8, heat improvement (-0.36C/sec)
Vicious Bite: -2 MG, loss of armor in torsos and legs, +2 SRM4, heat improvement (-0.26C/sec)

Please let me know opionions on changes... good, bad, or ugly, some were pretty close calls and can easily be reversed or changed. Also if anyone has the time, plz nit-pik my designs it's alway harder to judge your own! Should be the last update for a few weeks while feedback and playtesting takes place. Hopefully this gives a good workover to some of the 'lesser' titans and improves somew of the older designs. Keep the feedback coming on which ones are 'lacking'!


Newer version further down the thread (2nd page currently), keep going till you see the red type.

[Coyote27]

it's not at the bottom of the post O_O I'll be patient, I promise

[Sleeping_Dragon]

Try it now[:D]

No fair sneaking in here before I finish posting/editing hehe

[Thorgrim]

ORIGINAL: Sleeping_Dragon
I 'fixed' it by changing the Man-o'-War. (little less armor, lost the LRM9 and ML, swapped chassis, gained +1 engine, +1 JJ, +ECM, and a CLG, starting to look like the Storm Giant, but should play 'different' enough.)

And the Chameleon and Kronos.

Scorpion: I changed this one?[:D] Must have been the "unknown assault(?)" I mentioned in an earlier post... well ok it's not an assault...but... that's the one, it's actually pretty good now that it don't meltdown [:D] Think the increased fire rate makes up for the AP lose.

Nope, that was the Avatar and the Baalzebul.

Gladiator: Gains: NB and SL, a level of ECM, and a -0.43C/sec heat improvement. Loses: 1 level of shields, 2 levels of engine, and a level of LS. Pick the weapons to use at the appropriete distances and should be ok. There are a lot of titians similiar to this one, add any weapon to it and it looks like something else.

Bad Omen?

Predator: Loses 1 level of LS, 2 levels of engine and 4 levels of Flares; Gains: -0.36C/sec in heat dissapation and 2 SRM8s

Rifleman?

[Sleeping_Dragon]

ORIGINAL: Thorgrim
And the Chameleon and Kronos.

Man-o'-War isn't thaaaat close to these... IMO, some similiarities, but distinct enough

Nope, that was the Avatar and the Baalzebul.

hmmmmm... then I have no clue when I changed the Scorpion. Must be getting old and senile[:D]

ORIGINAL: Sleeping_Dragon
Gladiator: There are a lot of titians similiar to this one, add any weapon to it and it looks like something else.

Bad Omen?

Yep, that's one of them... could be another possible dodo, something to get rid of if a better design comes along?

Rifleman?

hmmm, I agree, too similiar, What about reducing the LS by 1 and swapping the 2 SRM8's of 2 NM7's? always can use nore NMs

[Thorgrim]

ORIGINAL: Sleeping_Dragon
Illuminator/Tracker: After looking over all the GM designs I think it's time for the Illuminator to go the way of the Dodo (or Vulcanoid). 'Best' replacement I came up with was a 5GME design built on the Illuminator chassis (heat is -3.79C/sec, gained a shield1 and an ECM2) and it fits pretty well as there are no heavy GME dependent designs in the wieght class. Need a new name for this one, if ayone has an idea let me know.

I'm looking at merging the 2 designs into one, a compromise solution. Dropped the engine by 1 in the Illuminator, swapped one GMH rack for a GME, and improved armor and heat dissipation. Gets re-evaluated as short range though, and firepower may be insufficient?
The slot of the Tracker can be used for the all-GME design.

Code: Select all

 
 Titan Name: Illuminator           Short Range Medium Titan
 Chassis: Krios K-M2               Design: Vicious Byte   
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Weight: 100.0t (100t maximum)     Height     : 11 [meter]
 Bmt   : 27 (44 kph)               Reduce Heat: -2.32C/sec.
 Jmt   : 13 (92 kph) for 52 secs   Cost       : 229919($)
 
 
 Equipment:
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Component/Type/Location
 
 Engine  : CyberSys  [Engine 3] [CT  ]
 HeatReg.: Delinit H4  [Heat 4]
 Flares  : FL Large    [Flare2] [Head]
 Shield  : Simson-Light [Shld1] [RT  ]
 LifeSup.: B.M.I.      [Life 3] [Head]
 Scanner : Mark M-S   [Scan. 5] [LT  ]
 Computer: Mark BC-X  [Comp. 6] [CBT ]
 E.C.M.  : Electra   [E.C.M. 1] [CT  ]
 JumpPort: Coltos      [Jump 3]
 
 
 Weapons:
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Location/Weapon/Ammunition/Slots
 
 [RA  ]  G.M.H. 2 RACK        (032) [2]
 [LA  ]  G.M.H. 2 RACK        (032) [2]
 [RT  ]  G.M.E. RACK          (026) [2]
 [LT  ]  G.M.E. RACK          (026) [2]
 
 
 Armor:
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Loc/Internal/Armor/Status/Points/mm
 
 [Head] (11) Dullaroy  HMAX 020 [029mm]
 [RT  ] (23) Vicenium  (W)  037 [062mm]
 [CT  ] (23) Vicenium  MAX  041 [069mm]
 [CBT ] (13) Dullaroy  (S)  020 [029mm]
 [LT  ] (23) Vicenium  (W)  037 [062mm]
 [RA  ] (21) Titanium  (W)  037 [068mm]
 [LA  ] (21) Titanium  (W)  037 [068mm]
 [LowT] (13) Vicenium       039 [065mm]
 [RL  ] (17) Titanium  (W)  037 [068mm]
 [LL  ] (17) Titanium  (W)  037 [068mm]
 
 Armor Index:   5.24 [Total APts/T]
 Internal:    182  [APts]
 External:    342  [APts]   Max:[069mm]
 Total Armor: 524  [APts]
 
 
 JOCK requirements:
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Piloting: Medium Titan incl. Jump          
 Weapons : G.M.                             
 Warfare : Defense  Scanner  Warfare(ECM)   
 Skills  : Ind.Fire