This is rediculous!!!

[Tanaka]

Anyone else had almost all your japanese 1st carrier fleet planes shot down or damaged on the first turn surprise attack by only 20 allied planes???

Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 126
D3A Val x 126
B5N Kate x 151
E8N Dave x 4
F1M2 Pete x 4
E13A1 Jake x 6

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4
P-26A x 3
P-36A Mohawk x 3
P-40B Tomahawk x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 79 destroyed, 15 damaged
D3A Val: 44 destroyed, 39 damaged
B5N Kate: 69 destroyed, 54 damaged
E8N Dave: 5 destroyed
F1M2 Pete: 4 destroyed
E13A1 Jake: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
P-26A: 7 destroyed, 2 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 18 destroyed, 20 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 51 destroyed, 42 damaged
PBY Catalina: 27 destroyed, 74 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 13 destroyed, 11 damaged
A-20B Boston: 7 destroyed, 4 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 18 destroyed, 17 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 7 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 7, on fire
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Ralph Talbot, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Florence D., Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Aroostook, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DMS Trevor, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AV Tangier, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1
DM Preble, Bomb hits 1
ML Ogalala, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Blue, Bomb hits 1


Allied ground losses:
164 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 43
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 200

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
9 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
20 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
19 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
18 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
24 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
19 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
16 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
12 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
17 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
15 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
17 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
19 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
24 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
22 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
19 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
23 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
26 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
2 x F1M2 Pete bombing at 2000 feet
1 x E8N Dave bombing at 2000 feet
3 x E13A1 Jake bombing at 2000 feet
1 x E8N Dave bombing at 2000 feet
3 x E13A1 Jake bombing at 2000 feet

[Xargun]

That my friend is a laugh.. I about fell of my chair... Call that a restart if I ever saw one.. Even as the allied player I would allow a restart with that BS first turn.

Xargun

[Brady]

!

[MadDawg]

Tanka, at the moment the Combat Summary of air to air combat seems to give a greatly exagerated account of air to air combat in comparison to the animation shown before it. If you watch the Air to Air animation itself it seems to be a more accurate version of the battle (though still contains some FOW I beleive).

Im guessing that although it says your losses were that many it might actually be that you lost half that amount and you are being given an incorrect account by the summary due to Fog of War.

Dawg

[Caltone]

Damn, they even shot up his float planes. [:D]

Just curious, unless this is a PBEM and you don't want to tell, what was the official tally under the aircraft losses section of the intel report? My losses at Pearl as Japan have typically been what I expect, fairly close to historical. Can't seem to replicate thier success though, unless you stick around for a little.

[dpstafford]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Anyone else had almost all your japanese 1st carrier fleet planes shot down or damaged on the first turn surprise attack by only 20 allied planes???

Did you check your carriers the next turn to see if you REALLY lost that many planes?

I could be that Cuba Gooding Jr. and Ben Affleck exaggerated his hits a little.

[Drongo]

Were the fighters on escort or sweep?

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Caltone

Damn, they even shot up his float planes. [:D]

Just curious, unless this is a PBEM and you don't want to tell, what was the official tally under the aircraft losses section of the intel report? My losses at Pearl as Japan have typically been what I expect, fairly close to historical. Can't seem to replicate thier success though, unless you stick around for a little.

173 aircraft points lost

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Drongo

Were the fighters on escort or sweep?

my fighters were on airfield attack but still that is a lot of losses by only a few allied pilots.
many allied pilots had 6 kills or more.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Anyone else had almost all your japanese 1st carrier fleet planes shot down or damaged on the first turn surprise attack by only 20 allied planes???

Did you check your carriers the next turn to see if you REALLY lost that many planes?

I could be that Cuba Gooding Jr. and Ben Affleck exaggerated his hits a little.

74 air to air losses my first turn

[Svar]

You had 125 Kates, 105 Vals, and 93 Zeros attacking after fighting through the CAP. I would have to guess that you had no escort and suffered the consequences with losses only about 1/3 of those reported.

[Mike Scholl]

I think the real lesson here is that MATRIX/2BY3 has allowed the range of variation
to be TOO wide. A result like this is surely a case for a re-start..., but what about
when it goes the other way? Does the Japanese Player graciously allow a re-start?
Or resist because "the Allies are going to win anyway?'

The spread of possible results needs to be narrowed toward the historical outcome
at least for the PH attack just so players don't have to hassle with numerous re-starts.

[Caltone]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: Caltone

Damn, they even shot up his float planes. [:D]

Just curious, unless this is a PBEM and you don't want to tell, what was the official tally under the aircraft losses section of the intel report? My losses at Pearl as Japan have typically been what I expect, fairly close to historical. Can't seem to replicate thier success though, unless you stick around for a little.

173 aircraft points lost

Whoa. Better start suing for peace now [:D]

" If you don't surrender now, I will scatter the debris of another 175 planes over your port and airfields. You have 1 hour to make your decision"

Seriously, that is just beyond belief, In the initial attack over PH I typically lose 15-20 planes, anywhere from 5 - 7 each of Zero's, Val's, and Kate's. Although I haven't played very far in the campaign, I have restarted enough that I have a pretty good sample [:D]

I've got a few PBEM's running as well, and those have been along the same lines.

Have you played enough that this seems abnormal to you as well? Also were you playing historical 1st turn with no vary setup?

[Erik Rutins]

Definitely pretty bizarre - I've never seen that but from what you say you also had no escort. How many kills were air to air and how many due to flak? Moral of the story: Assign at least a little escort.

Regards,

- Erik

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Caltone

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: Caltone

Damn, they even shot up his float planes. [:D]

Just curious, unless this is a PBEM and you don't want to tell, what was the official tally under the aircraft losses section of the intel report? My losses at Pearl as Japan have typically been what I expect, fairly close to historical. Can't seem to replicate thier success though, unless you stick around for a little.

173 aircraft points lost

Whoa. Better start suing for peace now [:D] " If you don't surrender now, I will scatter the debris of another 175 planes over your port and airfields. You have 1 hour to make your decision

Seriously, that is just beyond belief, In the initial attack over PH I typically lose 15-20 planes, anywhere from 5 - 7 each of Zero's, Val's, and Kate's. Although I haven't played very far in the campaign, I have restarted enough that I have a pretty good sample [:D]

I've got a few PBEM's running as well, and those have been along the same lines.

Have you played enough that this seems abnormal to you as well? Also were you playing historical 1st turn with no vary setup?

ill run it again and see what happens. yes this seems very abnormal. i just redid my turn and this happened. so i was like this is a fluke. so i ran the turn again and got the same horrible results. i will run it again and post the results. yes all historical no vary.

[Tanaka]

This time was even better....

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 6
P-26A x 5
P-36A Mohawk x 3
P-40B Tomahawk x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 88 destroyed, 37 damaged
D3A Val: 53 destroyed, 39 damaged
B5N Kate: 125 destroyed, 36 damaged
E8N Dave: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
F1M2 Pete: 4 destroyed
E13A1 Jake: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
P-26A: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 15 destroyed, 13 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 53 destroyed, 58 damaged
PBY Catalina: 41 destroyed, 50 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 14 destroyed, 20 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 12 destroyed, 16 damaged
A-20B Boston: 7 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 10, on fire
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 11, on fire
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 12, on fire
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 8
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 5
BB California, Bomb hits 11, on fire
DD Hull, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 1
DMS Perry, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AV Curtiss, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1
DD Case, Bomb hits 1, on fire


Allied ground losses:
237 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 43
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 205

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
9 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
14 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
22 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
17 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
18 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
16 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
13 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
17 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
14 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
15 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
20 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
19 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
20 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
18 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
21 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
27 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
1 x F1M2 Pete bombing at 2000 feet
1 x F1M2 Pete bombing at 2000 feet
2 x E8N Dave bombing at 2000 feet
3 x E13A1 Jake bombing at 2000 feet
1 x E8N Dave bombing at 2000 feet
2 x E13A1 Jake bombing at 2000 feet

[Tanaka]

I think this all started happening when I put all my fighters on airfield attack. But there still are just very few allied planes in the air and the I expected more losses but not this sheesh.....

[Reiryc]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

I think this all started happening when I put all my fighters on airfield attack. But there still are just very few allied planes in the air and the I expected more losses but not this sheesh.....

There's the problem right there... you turned your fighters into bombers.

[Drongo]

I've got to ask this, what difficulty level are you using?

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

I think this all started happening when I put all my fighters on airfield attack. But there still are just very few allied planes in the air and the I expected more losses but not this sheesh.....

There's the problem right there... you turned your fighters into bombers.

yea im going to order switch them all from airfield attack to sweep and i will post the difference.