Does firing at muzzle flashes do anything?

[Cap Mandrake]

Sometimes a non-spotted enemy unit will fire on a friendly...and it seems possible to infer the origin of the fire from the firing animation. I have tried tasking indirect fire on the apparent enemy location to suppress...does this actually work?

[MarkShot]

I have often wondered about that myself. It has been stated that arty will cause damage/suppression when used against unseen targets. I always do that when trying to seize a primed bridge.

The best test you could do is with a small scenario and creating save file check points. You can run two tests one firing/triangulating on enemy units and other not. You can save at various points and surrender so that you can view the enemy situation.

[Golf33]

If you correctly gauge the origin of incoming fire, and it's an accurate report, then targetting artillery on it will hit the enemy unit there. If you misjudge the origin of the fire, or the intel isn't accurate, then of course your artillery will miss.

Essentially artillery will always have some effect if it lands on the area occupied by a unit - whether you can see the unit or not - and will have no effect if it doesn't.

Regards
33

[Arjuna]

The same also applies to direct fire. You can order a unit to Fire at a particular location. If there are no obvious enemy reports then there is a chance ( not necessarily a good one ) that it will still hit any real enemy unit lurking there.

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

The same also applies to direct fire. You can order a unit to Fire at a particular location. If there are no obvious enemy reports then there is a chance ( not necessarily a good one ) that it will still hit any real enemy unit lurking there.

Arjuna;

What is the resolution on target selection? Lets assume a defending coy with default frontage and the firing unit is a 81 mm Mortar plt.. Does one have to hit the center of gravity of the unit within 2 m resoltuion..8, 100?

[MarkShot]

Where wargaming and technology meet on the virtual battlefield:

I can just see the FO calling back to the battery, "Target round off to the North East by five pixels at resolution 1024x768. Correct and drop another round." The next thing you have to ask yourself is if you have Map Anti-Aliasing on with a refresh of 85Hz will it cause the trajectory to drift to the North. Additionally, it may also be a good idea to hit the DeGauss button before starting a new scenario.

---

Sorry sometimes you just have to be a wise *ss on a Monday morning if you want to make it through to Friday with your sanity intact.

[RayWolfe]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I can just see the FO calling back to the battery, "Target round off to the North East by five pixels at resolution 1024x768. (Great big snip)

Just too wonderful. [:D]
Ray

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Where wargaming and technology meet on the virtual battlefield:

I can just see the FO calling back to the battery, "Target round off to the North East by five pixels at resolution 1024x768. Correct and drop another round." The next thing you have to ask yourself is if you have Map Anti-Aliasing on with a refresh of 85Hz will it cause the trajectory to drift to the North. Additionally, it may also be a good idea to hit the DeGauss button before starting a new scenario.

---

Sorry sometimes you just have to be a wise *ss on a Monday morning if you want to make it through to Friday with your sanity intact.

Mark...you may WANT to be a wise ** on Mondays..but it is possible to overcome one's baser instincts [;)]

I was talking about the real world resolution not the monitor. Maybe I should have said.."how close do you have to be" [:D]

BTW... where might I find my DeGuass button...I have a 19 in Viewsonic 260HXRT11234........

[HercMighty]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

BTW... where might I find my DeGuass button...I have a 19 in Viewsonic 260HXRT11234........

Raise left hand, hit side of monitor. Repeat as necessary.

[Golf33]

When a bombardment occurs, the game checks the area covered by the bombardment to see if it overlaps any unit boundaries. If it does the game then checks the density of the bombardment, the density of the unit, how much of the unit area is covered by the bombardment, and any other relevant factors to determine the target effect. So the more precise the targeting, and the denser the bombardment, the more effective it will be.

Regards
33

[Jane Doe]

So the more precise the targeting, and the denser the bombardment, the more effective it will be

To make your bombardment deadlier and your management of artillery easier. Just attach different artillery units together (2 or 3). That way you'll just need to select the leading artillery unit and when you order it to fire, all 2-3 units will fire at the same time creating a higher bombardment density on the target, hence higher kills. Plus, instead of ordering 3 times, you do it only once, thus easier management.
Very effective when i use it with 3 SP Art.
(A little off topic, but well..)

[Cap Mandrake]

ORIGINAL: Jane Doe

So the more precise the targeting, and the denser the bombardment, the more effective it will be

To make your bombardment deadlier and your management of artillery easier. Just attach different artillery units together (2 or 3). That way you'll just need to select the leading artillery unit and when you order it to fire, all 2-3 units will fire at the same time creating a higher bombardment density on the target, hence higher kills. Plus, instead of ordering 3 times, you do it only once, thus easier management.
Very effective when i use it with 3 SP Art.
(A little off topic, but well..)

Wait..are you saying you attach one arty regiment (for eg) directly to another arty regiment then order the "superior" regiment to target X,Y? There is no order planning delay? It seems kind of anhistorical.

BTW arty missions timing out is really annoying when playing at accelerated speed. It is a headache scooting around waking up the mortar platoons. Couldn't there be a command like "fire for effect" or something that halts when 30% of ammo expended or something? Along these lines...targeted enemy units which are being observed by friendly units in the chain of command of the firing arty should be able to adjust fire as the targeted unit moves.

[HercMighty]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: Jane Doe

So the more precise the targeting, and the denser the bombardment, the more effective it will be

To make your bombardment deadlier and your management of artillery easier. Just attach different artillery units together (2 or 3). That way you'll just need to select the leading artillery unit and when you order it to fire, all 2-3 units will fire at the same time creating a higher bombardment density on the target, hence higher kills. Plus, instead of ordering 3 times, you do it only once, thus easier management.
Very effective when i use it with 3 SP Art.
(A little off topic, but well..)

Wait..are you saying you attach one arty regiment (for eg) directly to another arty regiment then order the "superior" regiment to target X,Y? There is no order planning delay? It seems kind of anhistorical.

BTW arty missions timing out is really annoying when playing at accelerated speed. It is a headache scooting around waking up the mortar platoons. Couldn't there be a command like "fire for effect" or something that halts when 30% of ammo expended or something? Along these lines...targeted enemy units which are being observed by friendly units in the chain of command of the firing arty should be able to adjust fire as the targeted unit moves.

To have artillary follow spotted units would be a plus. Would be nice for artillary to have an option to assign it to a unit that has a LOS to a target and this unit would help keep the artillary on that enemy unit. Now it would not keep it 100% on the unit and follow it exactly, there would have to be a delay and such but could this option be investigated.

But I guess the first question would be for the historians and would this type of option be realistic for the time period? Or how was it handled?

[Golf33]

ORIGINAL: HercMighty

Wait..are you saying you attach one arty regiment (for eg) directly to another arty regiment then order the "superior" regiment to target X,Y? There is no order planning delay? It seems kind of anhistorical.

This has been the subject of a lot of discussion at Panther and indeed elsewhere on these boards - if you use the search facility you will be able to locate a number of threads talking about this exact issue. There is a certain amount of abstraction in the command and control of artillery - and at this scale there is always going to be - but to hobble the ability of artillery to concentrate multiple units on a single target would be to take away the very thing that made artillery such a critical arm on the battlefield. One of the best things about HTTR is that it is one of the few wargames that actually gives the artillery some of its true battlefield power. Note that artillery engagement of targets is not instantaneous - there is a realistic delay of a couple of minutes that represents observer and command-post procedures and so forth - but it is not generally noticeable in the game. This is especially so when running at Fast speed.

BTW arty missions timing out is really annoying when playing at accelerated speed. It is a headache scooting around waking up the mortar platoons. Couldn't there be a command like "fire for effect" or something that halts when 30% of ammo expended or something?

The on-call artillery generally handles mission duration pretty well. If anything we might reduce the default bombardment a bit and ramp up the rate of fire, but that's definitely one for a future game (i.e. after COTA). As far as increasing the duration of friendly artillery bombardments, when you issue the bombardment order, just left or right click on the bombardment time buttons to increase or decrease the duration of the fire. Set it to 1 day for example, and the unit will shoot till its ammo runs out.

Currently there is no facility to limit engagement by ammunition reserve, units will engage at the ordered rate until they run out. That is a good idea for a future game though, thanks.

Along these lines...targeted enemy units which are being observed by friendly units in the chain of command of the firing arty should be able to adjust fire as the targeted unit moves.

To have artillary follow spotted units would be a plus. Would be nice for artillary to have an option to assign it to a unit that has a LOS to a target and this unit would help keep the artillary on that enemy unit. Now it would not keep it 100% on the unit and follow it exactly, there would have to be a delay and such but could this option be investigated.

But I guess the first question would be for the historians and would this type of option be realistic for the time period? Or how was it handled?

Artillery fire is directed at the intel reports of enemy units. These reports will be more accurate if a friendly unit is in position to directly observe the enemy, and less accurate if this is not the case. If you have good observation onto a moving enemy unit, your on-call artillery will target the successive reports, but bear in mind that hitting a moving target with artillery was (and is) extremely difficult and only a highly-trained and experienced observer is able to do it with much success.

Regards
33

[HercMighty]

The problem is I think that most players take control of their artillery instead of letting the AI handle it. Once the human player takes over you lose the ability to have the artillary adjust automatically for a unit that has moved. So you are giving in essence an area bombard order instead of a unit targeting order like the AI does. On a small scenerio this is not really an issue but as the scenerios get bigger it can be more of a micro-managing headache to make sure the fire is being adjusted to the new area as units move due to retreating, or routing. So maybe if we could have two kinds of bombard orders. One for an area bomabard and one to target a unit. As long as the unit is spotted the artillery unit will adjust to a units movement. If the unit goes un-spotted you will recieve a message saying the unit is now going to an area bombard for the last area known for that unit if there is time left on the ticker.

The other side of this is:

Is it better to leave artillary under AI control? Maybe I am just remembering wrong or have mis-judged comments here and people are not taking control of these units as a matter of standard operating procedure.

[Golf33]

I usually leave my artillery under the AI's control. By unchecking "Rest after bombard" (on the Options tab) I can treat a high-value target myself, and once the bombardment has finished the artillery will go back to responding to on-call requests. For a critical attack I will monitor progress pretty closely and I might group up a number of artillery fire units so that I can smash any stubborn position with a short concentration at "Rapid" rate.

Generally I find artillery ammunition is too valuable to waste it trying to follow a unit around the map. If the enemy is retreating, then I would prefer to try and get someone in place to cut it off or at least chase it up with direct fire; the only time I am particularly worried about hitting a moving unit is when I am being assaulted by the enemy, and then it's usually sufficient to drop a curtain of fire just short of the enemy forward trace.

I do use "rest after bombard" to conserve artillery ammunition and manage their fatigue.

Regards
33

[HercMighty]

Thanks for the insight. By sharing your insights gives a better picture into how I have been playing and I will have to try your tips.

Thanks.

[Jane Doe]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: Jane Doe

So the more precise the targeting, and the denser the bombardment, the more effective it will be

To make your bombardment deadlier and your management of artillery easier. Just attach different artillery units together (2 or 3). That way you'll just need to select the leading artillery unit and when you order it to fire, all 2-3 units will fire at the same time creating a higher bombardment density on the target, hence higher kills. Plus, instead of ordering 3 times, you do it only once, thus easier management.
Very effective when i use it with 3 SP Art.
(A little off topic, but well..)

Wait..are you saying you attach one arty regiment (for eg) directly to another arty regiment then order the "superior" regiment to target X,Y? There is no order planning delay? It seems kind of anhistorical.

Yes and no. What I do is attach an artillery battery to another arty battery so that i have regimental firepower. Hopefully, batteries of a same regiment. Regiments attached to the div HQ are already powerful enough, so there's no need to do that with them.

For exemple, I'm playing the "Crunch Time" scenario commanding the 7th armoured division vs 1SSPz LAH. 7th Arm Div is composed of 2 bdes. One of them is the 22th Armoured Bde that is itself composed of 3 regt: 5th Inniskillen, 1st and 5th Royal. Each one of them has one battery of 3rd RHA Fd Regt (SP Art). What I do is detach the batteries from the tank regiments and combine (an option some wargames has) them to form 3rd RHA Fd Regt. That way it's as if you controlled a single regiment. I don't combine them with 84th Mdm Arty Regt. Now that would be ahistorical.

It's plausible enough for me.

something that halts when 30% of ammo expended or something?

good idea

[Cap Mandrake]

Good suggestions on play. Combining arty batteries seems perfectly reasonable.

Artilley is indeed king in HTTR..for eg. in Nijmegan historical it is possbile to stop all the attacks coming out of the Reichwald virtually with arty alone.

BTW..it seems like a moving towed arty unit responds too rapidly to an order to unlimber and start firing...it seems to happens in minutes.

[Golf33]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

BTW..it seems like a moving towed arty unit responds too rapidly to an order to unlimber and start firing...it seems to happens in minutes.

It takes about 20-45 minutes depending on the type of unit. This is about right for historical timings, if anything in some cases a bit too slow.

Regards
33