China and herding cats

[ZOOMIE1980]

I am playing the Japanese vs AI in my current run. The Chinese campaign is, overall, going well. I have the north (actually the west in reality, it just looks north on the map) almost completely overrun. Took Lanchow last night and it is only Jan 20. I even have the Hopei militia almost totally wiped out!

But the MESS around Changsha is like trying herd cats! I win a lot of battles, but the Chinese scatter all over the place! I'm trying to herd them generally towards the center but I can't spread out so thin to cover all retreat paths because of the odd mix of concentrations of Chinese troop strength. I end up chasing them into the agriculture fields but then my troops get exhausted and move only 2 or 3 miles a day. I've got a hodgepodge of a half a dozen or so Chinese troop concentration all over the map now even though I have ALL the cities along the rail line and the rail line, itself is currently clear. But they are quick to cut it if I leave a rail hex empty for a day or two. I've even borrowed the 38th Div from Hong Kong and split it trying to plug all the gaps, but what a MESS!

[rogueusmc]

Sounds to me like those Chinese are doing great job!!!...That's exactly what I would want them to do...[:D]

[carnifex]

I'm not sure but I believe there is current bug where troops can retreat into enemy hexes. This is probably causing a lot of the confusion in China as well as producing 'unkillable' units.

[ZOOMIE1980]

It's quite a mess. None, individual are very strong and all are likely at 80+ fatigue levels. But as soon as you leave an open rail hex, they move onto it! The trick is trying to herd them towards the interior, i.e. make them retreat in the direction you want them to retreat in, not the opposite way! And there are a LOT of them. They must be splitting their units to cause confusion or something. I am slowing getting them herded in the right direction, but it is consuming supplies and fatiguing the HELL out of my forces.

My goal by the end of Feb to have ALL the Chinese Rail hexes and cities at the end of the rail spurs under my control. I've nearly cleared teh north and will soon have 6 or more full combat divisions available to redeploy to the center (Sian, Ichang, etc) and the south (actually the east). I intend then, after the Burma road is cut, to use the 56th and 18th or 5th Div, if available in Burma allong with the 55th and 33rd Div and and hike along the trail and take Yutan all the while start pressing the encirclement (it appears I have an unhindered path now from the far northwest all the way to Chunking!) ever tighter. Supply over the roads/trails will become the major issue. Every Supply transport available will be in the supply centers air-dropping in support.

Don't know if one can totally take China from the AI on the "hard" level, but I'm giving it a go. So far I've already "stolen" the 38th div from Southern Area Army, and I plan on stealing every other Malaysian Division/Brigade for China conquest once the SRA is secure. 5th Div, 18th Div, 56th Div, Imperial Guards, 21 Mixed Bde, 23 Mixed Bde and if the PI falls, very will the 48th, 16th, and some other Bde's to boot. All out attempt to take China. Why? Don't know, just want to do that vs adventuring in the Solomons/Midway, NG and Australia....

China is my big "what if" while other seem fixated on New Caledonia, invaiding MW/Pearl or landing in Darwin, or taking India....

Impossible to do it vs a human player. The AI doesn't do much flanking, feinting, and such...

[rogueusmc]

Define 'enemy hex'....the bug is where the unit that got pushed out of a base hex into the next hex will retreat from that hex back to the base hex and recapture the base. Troops won't retreat, regardless of direction, into a hex that is occupied with enemy troops.

As far as the units splitting and scattering, that's what units on the run would do in RL. Scatter and cause disruption wherever they can. That's what gorilla tactics are. The Chinese were some of the first to use these tactics long before WWII...they had alot of practice. Read Sun Tzu sometime...he lays it all out and he wrote that centuris ago and military academies around the world study it.

[kaleun]

gorilla tactics

I thought those were where the big black monkey picks the girl up and strides off into the forest, or to the top of the Empire State Building![:D]

[ZOOMIE1980]

ORIGINAL: kaleun

gorilla tactics

I thought those were where the big black monkey picks the girl up and strides off into the forest, or to the top of the Empire State Building![:D]

Talk about no slack!!! Lordy, you guys are BRUTAL!

Seems they modelled at least some of that in the game. Suckers have been scattered everywhere. Finally have them all generally herded in the right direction. One unit left to the right of the tracks.

[rogueusmc]

ORIGINAL: kaleun

gorilla tactics

I thought those were where the big black monkey picks the girl up and strides off into the forest, or to the top of the Empire State Building![:D]

NONONO...those are DESPERATE tactics...[:D]

[Q-Ball]

Somewhere in here might be a valid tactic for the Allied Player.....splitting Chinese forces into small groups and having them running over all the rail lines, like a bunch of partisans!After all, unless you have a horde you can't win a stand-up fight. Might as well cut the supply lines.

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Somewhere in here might be a valid tactic for the Allied Player.....splitting Chinese forces into small groups and having them running over all the rail lines, like a bunch of partisans!After all, unless you have a horde you can't win a stand-up fight. Might as well cut the supply lines.

That was the Chinese tactics, partisans everywhere and cut the supplies of the Japanese army. Then if the Japanese army disperses hit one of the weak groups with a big group of Chinese units... then disperse again...

[RUPD3658]

If it makes you feel better I can tell you that victory is possible in China. I am in April of 42 against hard AI and have just taken Chungking. The mess aroung Changsha is the same as yours but this is not a problem. After driving the northern forces off their bases and into the bush my forces made a bee line for Chungking. After 2 of attacks I finally took it with a shock attack. I have yet to destroy a Chinese unit but have cut many of them off and rendered them ineffective. After I take Chentu and no longer have to worry about them respawning I will go back and mop up.

While cat hearding is frustrating for you (and annoying to the cat) they can be declawed.