Carrier Corsairs

[rogueusmc]

The Corsair was carrier capable from the get-go...the choice not to put them on a carrier was just that, a choice.

In UV, the Wildcats on the carriers had the upgrade path to the Hellcat, but if you put them on a base for a while, their upgrade path changed to the Corsair.

In WitP, the carrier capable groups would suffer higher ops losses than the carrier trained groups. Can you do like in UV and send the carrier units to a ground strip and change their upgrade to the Corsair?

[Drongo]

No.

[rogueusmc]

That sucks.

[esteban]

Corsairs on carriers are ahistorical. For example, at the Battle of the Phillipine Sea, there was only one squadron of Corsairs in all of TF 58. I think they flew off of the Enterprise, but I am not sure.

[Svar]

If you want Corsairs on your carriers look at Scenario #10.

[MadDawg]

I really think that the air unit upgrade paths need to be more flexible. This was fine for UV for its relatively limited focus, but as WITP is far more complex the current system is showing flaws.

One of my concerns if that the Japanese cant use older aircraft for Kamikazi attacks, as they really did, because you cant downgrade. Thus you end up with stockpiles of mothballed aircraft whilst you sending your newer planes out on suicide attacks.

Dawg

[esteban]

ORIGINAL: MadDawg

I really think that the air unit upgrade paths need to be more flexible. This was fine for UV for its relatively limited focus, but as WITP is far more complex the current system is showing flaws.

One of my concerns if that the Japanese cant use older aircraft for Kamikazi attacks, as they really did, because you cant downgrade. Thus you end up with stockpiles of mothballed aircraft whilst you sending your newer planes out on suicide attacks.

Dawg

I've considered saving a squadron or two of certain types of older planes where you often end up with a large leftover replacement pool when the original model upgrades (Nates are a very good example.) But as of yet, I am not sure what the kamikaze attack bonus is. So I am not sure that a Nate, which normally carries no bomb, would do much damage if used in a kamikaze role in the game. Perhaps I will save some of my older model dive bombers (Annes and Marys) or Kates and Jills, since I know that if those hit a ship, they will pack a punch.

Unfortunately, in the case of the Kates and Jills, the Grace torpedo bomber is a very superior replacement for them, so it is tempting to upgrade all the squadrons. Annes and Marys have much better range than Sonias, and have the same bomb load, so they are worth keeping to an extent. The question there is if you can extend the limited pool of these models that you start with. Sonias have decent survivability, but poor range, so they may be limited in a naval/kamikaze role.

If you have a stockpile of Vals, you can keep them around without losing much at all. The Judy is not much of an upgrade over the Val.

Another candidate to keep around, if you have a large leftover replacement pool, is the A6M2 Zero. It can carry a bomb, so it will have some "oomph" in a kamikaze role. Also, the A6M2 has such good range that you can arguably keep 2-3 squadrons around to act as either a long range escort force or a mobile reserve, since their transfer range is so long. It's a superior long range escort to the Oscar 2. The thing about A6M2 squadrons is that they can upgrade to A5s, A6s or A7s, which are among the best fighters the Japanese player has access to after 1943.

Oscar 2s are also a decent bet. They can carry a bomb, so they can hit for a bit of damage in a kamikaze role. After mid-late 43, they are poor fighters. Even in 1942, they are pretty undergunned. So perhaps the best thing to do with all your Oscar squadrons is to set them on kamikaze duty late in the game.

[rogueusmc]

I just asked if I could change the upgrade path like I could in UV...

The CHOICE was made not to put the Corsair on the carriers...me being the commander, I would have been the one to make that CHOICE.

[2Stepper]

Yep, and frankly until the Hellcat came out, I'd have been loading my CV's with Corsairs! The IJN pilots were scared of them and they did their damage to be sure

[esteban]

I don't mind the carrier trained units that appear in 45, those are historically accurate. Its the use of the carrier capable units that hurts. The op loss penalty for using these seems pretty low. I have tried a few in my games vs. the AI.

[jtareb]

I seem to remember reading about why Corsairs were never put on carriers to start with. Even though it started testing and production in early-mid 1942 and showed fantastic promise the Navy felt that pilots could not see a carrier deck when landing due to to poor downward(?) visibility caused by the big prop. This was later proven to be wrong but by then the Hellcat was in full production. It was only in late 44-early 45 when the Kamikazes started wrecking havoc that the much faster Corsair was considered for large scale deployment.

[crsutton]

This one was beat to death in the UV forum. Remember the corsair upgrade path for all wildcats was a bug. It never was addressed and pissed off quite a few Japanese player IIRC[;)] I did exploit it at times as I always felt the zero was way too strong vs P40s and wildcats. Just an opinion though. That one was beat to death as well...

[Wilhammer]

It was more then a 'choice'.

Read up on the subject - the games restrictions are the CORRECT way to handle it.

If we could do as we wish with things as this, you might as well play Axis and Allies, or Risk, not a serious historical simulation.

[cyberwop36]

Congradulations!! You guys have entered "The CV Corsair Zone"!!!

Over the last 2 years I've seen this topic pop up over and over and over and over again people who play as Japan vote for the historical deployment and consider putting them on CV's cheating. People who play as allies see it as there big chance "to change history." And never shall the tween shall meet.

It's your game play it how you want. I'm a allied guy [dad was at owkinowa and the phillip. he'd roll in his grave if i played the japs, hated them till the day he died]. I think it's more of a challenge without them. But in UV i've been known to use them to cover an invasion. I'll have too see how the war is going in 43.

Sorry about rambling [need sleep] but this issue is about the most beaten dead horse around here [been lurkin for quite a while. Play the AI = do what you want or PBEM make a gentlemans ageement before the game.

Happy landings

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: esteban

Corsairs on carriers are ahistorical. For example, at the Battle of the Phillipine Sea, there was only one squadron of Corsairs in all of TF 58. I think they flew off of the Enterprise, but I am not sure.

This is absolutely untrue[:(]. You need to research this for yourself. Look especially at US carrier ops in 1945.

regards

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: jtareb

I seem to remember reading about why Corsairs were never put on carriers to start with. Even though it started testing and production in early-mid 1942 and showed fantastic promise the Navy felt that pilots could not see a carrier deck when landing due to to poor downward(?) visibility caused by the big prop. This was later proven to be wrong but by then the Hellcat was in full production. It was only in late 44-early 45 when the Kamikazes started wrecking havoc that the much faster Corsair was considered for large scale deployment.

The Corsair was Carrier OpEval'd as early as 1943 with VF-17 on the Bunker Hill. In fact they we halfway to Hawaii on the their maiden deployment equipped with F4Us when the decision base them ashore was made. The decision was NOT based on their inability/inadequacies aboard ship, but based on a matter of supply. The navy parts supply system was better suited, at the time, to deal with Hellcats. So VF-17 was based ashore in the Solomons. You can read about this yourself in CDR Tom Blackburn's "The Jolly Rogers"

Later in the war when the need for a speedy carrier-based kamikaze interceptor was more apparent they equipped many airwings with them.

Refer to "Genda's Blade" a fantastic book about the 343rd Kokutai. They clashed with F4U-1Cs and Ds, and FG-1Ds from the VF-85 and VBF-85 on 2 June 1945. VF-85 and VBF-85 were based aboard the USS Shangri La. Nine corsairs and 2 Georges were lost that day.