So the Japanese never invented the bulldozer?

[Captain Cruft]

I was just wondering. Is there a good reason why no Japanese engineering units have "engineering vehicles"? Or is it just an omission? Seems like if they could make tanks and planes earth-moving equipment would not be beyond them.

[Mr.Frag]

I was just wondering. Is there a good reason why no Japanese engineering units have "engineering vehicles"? Or is it just an omission? Seems like if they could make tanks and planes earth-moving equipment would not be beyond them.

Nope, not an omission, normal ... Japan did through raw labour. The SeaBee units to powerbuild things was a USA invention, even they didn't have them when the war started. Building was a civil project, not a military one. The game doesn't have a representation of these civilians.

[Hard Sarge]

Hmmm Strange IIRC, one of the things that saved/helped the Marines on Lunga, was a Bulldozer that the JP had left behind (remember seeing pics of it)

hmmm, some of them Korean laborers were smarter then the JP thought

HARD_Sarge

[Montbrun]

The Japanese engineering capabilities were extremely crude in comparison to the Allies. They mainly used labor troops (mostly Korean conscripts) and crude rollers for airstrip construction. The bulldozers that they did have were very fragile, and extremely small, absolutely no comparison to the D8s that the Allies were using. Also, the Japanese had no history of "heavy" construction. Raw manpower was their main recourse for construction.
The "typical" Naval Construction Battalion was organized as follows:

Naval Construction Battalion
HQ Company
Company x 4
HQ
Maintenance and Operations Platoon
Construction Platoon
Construction Platoon
Road Blasting and Excavation Platoon
Waterfront Platoon
Tanks, Steel, and Pipes Platoon

I don't have the equipment asignments handy, but they included all sorts of bulldozers, graders, rollers, dump trucks, welding equipment and generators. You would never find such "heavy" equipment in a Japanese engineering outfit. Also, IMHO, the engineering units in the game do not represent their historical ToE, but instead, represent the unit's ablilities within the game system.

Hope this helps,

Brad

[Wilhammer]

I read in one Gudalcanal Book that they had perhaps a dozen engineering vehicles on G'canal, and a baby locomotive.

I too find a total omission of construction equipment to be a bit much.

In First Team: Guadalcanal, two bulldozers and a roller are mentioned.

In Frank's work, he mentions a couple of vehicles as well.

---------------------------

Of course, they did use a lot of slaves.

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Wilhammer
interesting, I wanted to say, I remembered something being steampowered, but wasn't sure if it was the dozer or not, but now that you mention the baby loco, that sounds like what I was remembering

HARD_Sarge

[Montbrun]

Yes, that's true, but have you seen the pictures? About 4 of the Jap 'dozers would fit into the size of one of ours. Do they count as a "vehicle?" I don't think so, and, they didn't last very long....

[Hard Sarge]

and, there was something odd, forget if it was the dozer or the loco, but once they were done with it, and the CB's had moved in, they were able to jury rig it, and used it to get the icecream machine working

for a little bit at least

HARD_Sarge

[Montbrun]

LOL...

[Wilhammer]

WW II Japanese Postcard depicting a pretty good sized bulldozer.

[Wilhammer]

The G'canal Japanese Steam Roller

...and a truck

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Brad
yea, they may of been smaller then ours, may not of been able to do the same work load that ours did, but that is not the point, they still had "some"

and if your the guy haveing to dig and level out a coral runway or cut though a jungle, I don't think you would mind if it wasn't as good as somebody elses, you would be happy to not have to do it all yourself

HARD_Sarge

[52nd Lowland]

Im sure my brother said that the bulldozer was a Komatsu.....as he works for the company he might actually be talking sense,probably read it from company propaganda[:D]

[strawbuk]

Can you believe we are having a 'name that 'dozer' competition?

BTW that fine bit of japanese roller is NOT steam driven (just look at it) - the steam engine reference is I think some confusion with a (potential) light railway

[Lemurs!]

Hi all,

I have argued over this since UV.
I had a teacher who landed on GC on Aug 7th, he said without the Japanese heavy equipment there would have been no Henderson. The Navy just did not have this kind of equipment yet.

To add to that i have an uncle who was a CB who said untill '43 their main equipment was the Mk1 shovel & the Mk1 muscle.

This entire system is so filled with prejudice it is scary. I am amused by the players who whine how Gary makes his games pro-Axis.

Mike

[Wilhammer]

"Steam Roller" is a generic term often used to describe any roller - even though steam engines are no longer with us.

You are correct, technically; it appears to be a gasoline engined vehicle.

[Wilhammer]

Indeed, in most accounts of the building of Henderson, the Japanese Equipment is mentioned as instrumental to getting the job done.

I agree that the idea that the Japanese Engineering was 'primitive' smacks of left over propoganda from the war.

[Cap Mandrake]

From Guadalcanal: The First Offensive


Besides the runway and the weapons in Kukum, the Japanese had abandoned a store of .25-caliber rifles, .25- and .303-caliber machine guns, two 70-mm. and two 75-mm. guns, ammunition, gasoline, oil, individual equipment, machinery, Ford and Chevrolet-type trucks, and two radars. They left stocks of rice, tea, hardtack, dried kelp, noodles, canned goods, and large quantities of beer and sake behind.29 The marines took over the abandoned weapons and used them to bolster their defenses. The 100-pound bags of rice and other food in the commissary dumps were added -to the marines' limited stores. The Japanese left among their personal belongings many diaries which were valuable sources of information for Allied intelligence.
About thirty-five of the Japanese trucks were serviceable. Lighter than American military transport, they proved less efficient. Without powered front axles, they stuck easily, but were a valuable addition to the 1st Marine Division's limited motor transport, and were used as long as they held together. The division engineers also used the Japanese rollers, mixers, surveying equipment, gasoline locomotives, and hopper cars in the subsequent completion of the airfield.

[Montbrun]

Well, that's why we have an editor - add "engineering vehicles" 'till your hearts content. I'll be rumaging through my sources tonite to see what I can find. I own a business in the construction industry, and this topic is something that I do know about. I also have family members that were in the Seabees during WWII. And yes, Japanese military engineering capabilities were, in fact, crude by Allied standards...

[Captain Cruft]

Great stuff guys, thanks!

Perhaps the judicious addition of one or two eng vehicles to selected Japanese eng units is in order? I fully accept the fact that they were an order of magnitude poorer in this area, but it seems not totally devoid of vehicles ...