PT Boats from Hell

[Xargun]

Was there a major change in the number of PT Boats given to the allies in the new OOB ? I'm just seeing lots of them in the DEI and at PH that I didn't see last game before the patches..

Xargun

[Brady]

The US Navy had 500(aprox.) World Wide in Service in WW2.

[Grotius]

Well, they sure seem deadly. Their torpedoes seem to find a target more frequently than my submarines' torpedoes. Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be, but these PT boats rarely miss.

[spence]

Don't know the game specifically but the Dutch had some kind of equivalent in the DEI and perhaps the game includes all motor torpedo boats under a generic "PT Boat"

Just some idle curiousity - the British had a Motor Gunboat type that they used in the English Channel in company with their Motor Torpedo Boats - anybody know if any of those were used in the Pacific as well?

[Maliki]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Well, they sure seem deadly. Their torpedoes seem to find a target more frequently than my submarines' torpedoes. Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be, but these PT boats rarely miss.

Interestingly enough in my game they only use them sparingly.The way i use my PT's is against Jap Supply or transport convoys,if something bigger is headed their way i stand them down.Sometimes they open up with 20mm guns but mostly they like to rake the Jap ships with 50 calibre.Though it cuts both ways.I watched one AG take 3 torpedo hits several 20 mm hits and some 50. hits and it never sank[X(]Sometimes it seems like this game gives weird results...another example being an AK that took 61(yes 61) shots from a heavy cruiser force before it sank or a group of 3 destroyers and 2 light cruisers that managed to maul 3 of my battleships despite taking numerous hits from them,and managed to sail away without one of their force sinking.Just go with the flow and expect some results that always don't seem possible.

[shoevarek]

Why do you need battleships if you have PT boats?

Seriously, I just bumped into them in Lae and they seem to be invincible. Sure I can sink 2 or 3 in one battle but AI seems to have dozens of them. No matter how many screen light ships I have they always find the way to put few torps in my capital ships. And there is one more thing that really pisses me off - I saw PT boat taking several 14inch hits and several smaller rounds hits. This is ridiculous!!! All battles seem to take place in 2000 yard range. They can't see the boat just disintegrated???!!! Why do they use big guns anyway??? After few battles with 6 PT TFs even the strongest TF is completely broken and out of ammo.

[fbastos]

Historically, the PT boats were very expensive and not really worth of it...

[Grotius]

I sympathize with Shoevarek: PT boats seem surprisingly tough on defense, and as I said before, their torpedoes seem surprisingly accurate and deadly. How does one deal with them? CVs won't attack them with airstrikes, and Port Attacks usually miss them, it seems. It's foolhardy to risk even one capital ship. I suppose a bunch of DDs might be a good bet.

Maybe I'm just seeing skewed results, but I keep seeing the same results: PT boats blowing the enemy out of the water. If the enemy is a Transport TF, even escorted, the PT boats will carve it up.

[Belphegor]

I would reward a gunner who put a 14" shell into a PT boat with a commission and make him gunnery officer. Capital ships would not fire main armament at PT boats. Secondaries and if available tertiaries yes, but certainly not large main guns.

PT boats should be hard to hit, they are small, and ships are not stable gun platforms. Perhaps a limit on the number of PT boats in a TF would prevent the swarming?

Also, send your float planes after the PT boats. Small things after small things. They do quite well strafing at 100 Ft and won't sink PT boats but will certainly damage them. Use the float planes present on your ships for naval attack at 100 ft.... instead of all on naval search (as long as you don't expect to go up against large ship TFs)

[mccavage]

Phooey - I just had a 6 boat Dutch squadron fail to seriously hurt an already injured IJN AP. My PT's in the Phillipines and DEI have been harmless including a single IJN DD killing 3 and running off another 3 when hitting a fat convoy.[:@]

[BoerWar]

I hit one Dutch PT 40+ times with guns of various sizes in one battle before it finally sank. The rest of the squadron got away.[:@]

[mongo]

PT boat effectiveness has been hashed nearly to death in other threads. The conditions (if PTs are caught in daylight by DDs and CLs, they bleed) make a huge difference.

Fighter bombers work fairly well on naval attack provided there aren't better targets.

As with everthing else, the results in the game seem streaky. Some folks will see them be hell on water for a while, and others find them useless. The numbers seem to flow in curves - ups and downs..

[shoevarek]

PT boat effectiveness has been hashed nearly to death in other threads. The conditions (if PTs are caught in daylight by DDs and CLs, they bleed) make a huge difference

I can imagine at daylight PT boats can't come to close range and that is why they are useless. At night they should be more effective but.... I had TF with 6DD, 2CL and 4BB. For some reason my screen ships did not fire single shot and my BBs took few torps. I tried light force TF - only DDs and CLs - still not very effective. So is there any counter tactics against PT boats night attacks? It seems to me that by putting 20 PT boats in the port the base becomes virtually immune to night bombardment attacks.

[shoevarek]

I suppose a bunch of DDs might be a good bet.

I tried this. Personally I don't think it works well. PT boat is woth 1 point, DD - at least 6. Last night I lost 1DD and 1DD damaged in return for 2PTs. At 2000 yards range PT not only can put a torp but also demolish DD with AA and machine guns.

I believe in La Manche they used fast gunboats for defence against German PTs. Did anybody try to use PCs against them?

[mongo]

I don't know what to tell you shoe..

I still think it's bad luck [:(]

I know I've seen PT tfs get ripped in both night and day, and by both DD tfs and regular (mixed) tfs..

Until someone is willing to fire up the tutorial (makes a great tester) and rip off 100 replays, I guess we won't know for sure about the code.

FWIW, I think they were deadlier in v1.0.. I personally believe they were toned down a bit.

[Belphegor]

I believe you guys about strong PT boats, honestly. But a transport TF (AKs and APs and no escort) with deck guns just kicked the crap out of my PT boats (10 strong.)

I am not sure what that means except I think more data should be collected.

[Caltone]

I've had some luck hitting PT's from CV's by setting the groups alt to 100 ft. I believe PT boats and barges can only be attacked by planes at that alt.

[Toro]

Caltone's right. A/c will attack them if set to 100ft altitude.

My impression of them (noting I'm Allies against AI Japan) -- they are fairly useless. I've gotten a couple torpedoes on target, but against large surface ships I get my a@$# handed to me consistently. Of course, I'm not creating fleets of them, only small squadrons of six or so. Roll of the die, I guess.

[Damien Thorn]

ORIGINAL: Caltone

I've had some luck hitting PT's from CV's by setting the groups alt to 100 ft. I believe PT boats and barges can only be attacked by planes at that alt.

Yes, but if there is a surface combat group with good AA in range all of your pilots will get slaughtered. It only has to happen once to screw the Japanese pilot pool for the next one to two years. There is no reason we should have to set our planes to 100 feet to attack PT boats. If the game needs some sort of 'flag' altitude setting then let it be 12000 or some other number that won't totally screw the pilots if the AI decides to send them against a non-PT target.

The solution in my games is to reclassify PT boats as "PG" class ships. By classifiying them as Patrol Gunboats they don't get the special programming code that the PTs get-- no 2000 yard starting range, no bonus to hit, no form-insta-task force if your port is attacked. Now they work fine, just like other little ships.

[anarchyintheuk]

What other weapon systems do you neuter? Just wondering.