Vulnerable location hit

Cona · Post by **Cona** » Fri May 25, 2001 6:28 am

I've read the manual and can't find any clues about the message "vulnerable location hit".
I mean ... before version 5.01, you get that toolbox message or the "main gun" message and i still see those. Now you see this new message too ... what does it mean ? more supression for the crew inside the vehicle ? because i've seen a kill just once.

Saludos a todos,
Cona.

Flashfyre · Post by **Flashfyre** » Fri May 25, 2001 11:27 am

A "vulnerable location" is just that...a spot on the vehicle that isn't as well-protected as the overall armor rating. Think of engine grilles, seams in the armor (bad welding caused some early Sherman kills from low-velocity rounds), driver/gunner vision slit, etc. It's like a critical hit in many games...you get a better chance of damage/kill with a weapon that under normal circumstances would have no effect.

I had a Brit Daimler Scout car taken out by a sniper with a rifle due to a "vulnerable location" top hit.

"Normally", that wouldn't have happened. But we all know that in war, nothing is "normal".

Lars Remmen · Post by **Lars Remmen** » Fri May 25, 2001 11:37 am

Originally posted by Flashfyre:
I had a Brit Daimler Scout car taken out by a sniper with a rifle due to a "vulnerable location" top hit.
"Normally", that wouldn't have happened. But we all know that in war, nothing is "normal".

I've had a Panther A killed by a top hit (vulnerable location) by the .30 MG on a Aircobra...

Mikimoto · Post by **Mikimoto** » Fri May 25, 2001 4:01 pm

Hello.

I had a Renault FT-17 turret damaged by vulnerable damage hit, by MG34 fire.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Fri May 25, 2001 4:52 pm

A vulnerable location hit reduces the base armor by 50% before modification... Still should not allow an MG to kill a tank except in assault? Maybe something rounded down to "0" somehow... Unfortunately a couple messeges like vulnerable location hit don't print to the combat log file so its hard to tell sometimes what is going on

Slind · Post by **Slind** » Fri May 25, 2001 4:58 pm

I had PzKmpfw-Ib destroyed by a hit of a pistol

Colonel von Blitz · Post by **Colonel von Blitz** » Fri May 25, 2001 6:15 pm

I've seen a lot of (enemy) trucks taking vulnerable location hits but resulting 'no effect'-hits. Must be my extremely poor luck or something like that

Colonel von Blitz

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Fri May 25, 2001 6:36 pm

I've had a Panther A killed by a top hit (vulnerable location) by the .30 MG on a Aircobra...

I've had a Matilda II knocked out with a top hit by that German bi-plane's (He-293 was it?)MG, and it WASN'T a vulnerable hit. I take it, given Paul's explanation, that for a vulnerable hit to register, is not the same as it actually being pierced, is it? If this is the norm (for mgs to possibly pierce Matilda II top armor with mgs), the Stuka ought to be a real terror.

[ May 25, 2001: Message edited by: Charles_22 ]

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Fri May 25, 2001 6:52 pm

Aircraft MGs are "different" they have a chance to kill that "regular" MG's don't have.

Trucks and other unarmored things are not affected by "vulnerable location hits" because half of 0 is still 0. Trucks have a whole lot of "dead space" though so rounds going through them often don't do anyhting!

Flashfyre · Post by **Flashfyre** » Fri May 25, 2001 8:41 pm

I've noticed that most "vulnerable location" hits happen at short range (<4 hexes). Mostly leg units, like infantry, MGs, ATRs, etc.

Mikimoto · Post by **Mikimoto** » Sat May 26, 2001 12:28 am

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
A vulnerable location hit reduces the base armor by 50% before modification... Still should not allow an MG to kill a tank except in assault? Maybe something rounded down to "0" somehow... Unfortunately a couple messeges like vulnerable location hit don't print to the combat log file so its hard to tell sometimes what is going on

Hello David.
The "vulnerable location hit" that i viewed in the game did not destroyed the tank. Actually I don't know what effect it has against vehicles (reduced base armor for this or posterior hits?). I was trying to supress the tank to make a close assault by infantry. Well, that message sounded so impresive that I ordered my infantry to assault, and destroyed the tank (81%assault).
By the way, I have never seen a Machinegun team assaulting nothing, never. Not in older versions not in 5.XX. Snipers and fire observers do assaults, but not MG teams.
Can't they?

Mikimoto · Post by **Mikimoto** » Sat May 26, 2001 12:55 am

Sorry Paul.
I wanted to saludate to you...

Gallo Rojo · Post by **Gallo Rojo** » Sat May 26, 2001 1:37 am

I've had a Maus knocked out with a top hit by a coconut shouted by a monkey that was hidden on a palm tree!

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Sat May 26, 2001 2:55 am

Yes the chances of a vulnerable hit get bigger once you get very close.

And come to think of it I don't MG units do assault tanks...

[ May 25, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]

Igor · Post by **Igor** » Sat May 26, 2001 3:05 am

I've seen Japanese tanks kill T-26s and those silly little machine gun tankettes with their hull machine guns in recent long war battles. Not often, but once or twice a battle.

I reckon the defenders in these cases just refused to button up...

[ May 25, 2001: Message edited by: Igor ]

Colonel von Blitz · Post by **Colonel von Blitz** » Sat May 26, 2001 12:18 pm

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
Trucks and other unarmored things are not affected by "vulnerable location hits" because half of 0 is still 0. Trucks have a whole lot of "dead space" though so rounds going through them often don't do anyhting!

I just witnessed a very odd incident while doing some equipment testing for PBEM game. I used a couple of 50 cal machine guns to destroy enemy trucks, but there was one VERY lucky truck in the field. During one turn I fired 9 bursts (4 + 5) at that particular truck (range was 7 hexes) scoring 7 hits. The truck took several *-hits, and was disabled, but not destroyed. Next turn I did the same...once more, the truck wasn't destroyed...I took a pen and paper and started to keep track of the hits: the truck took 46(!!!!!) hits before it was finally destroyed...now I really must be the unluckiest commander of the field

and the guy driving that truck must be the most lucky guy in the world! I would like to see that truck after 46 bursts from 50 cal MGs

Colonel von Blitz

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Sat May 26, 2001 8:20 pm

How many half inch holes does it take to destroy a truck? Right up there with the real life KV that took 42 hits from an 88 and was finally taken out with a satchel charge...

Gloo · Post by **Gloo** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 6:24 am

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
...Right up there with the real life KV that took 42 hits from an 88 and was finally taken out with a satchel charge...

Heard about that story related on a web page talking about Talonsoft EF. I'd like to know what happened to the crew? Did anyone survived?

Lately I saw retreating crewmen successfuly assaulting a SdKfz and destroying it! How can a suppressed crew, assault and destroy an armored vehicle only using pistols?!

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 7:47 am

Read a few Medal of Honor citations...how does anyone do any heroic action? Maybe they found a PF lying around...or a bunch of grenades?

Flashfyre · Post by **Flashfyre** » Fri Jun 01, 2001 8:04 am

"Destroyed" does not necessarily mean "blown up". Abstract the actions of some tank crewmen, who just had their track shot out from under them, going a bit crazy and climbing onto the enemy tank, throwing open a hatch, and spraying the inside with a clip from a .45 pistol. Ricochet is terrible inside a steel can.....most or all the enemy crew dead/wounded, tank is "combat ineffective", therefore considered "destroyed" in terms of effectiveness.

Assaults are abstract representations of all the various actions taken in "real life" to render an enemy vehicle inoperative.