Mines

John S · Post by **John S** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:42 pm

Playing the 43 Campaign, Lunga (Guadalcanal) starts with a bunch of mines (around 150 as I recall). They are diminishing. How do I move mines from somewhere else, for example, from Pearl Harbor, to Lunga???

2ndACR · Post by **2ndACR** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:57 pm

You need to use a ML or subs on "sub minelaying" orders to re-lay the mine field.

Mines can only be re-loaded at size 9 ports or larger, or the base must have a MLE in it with 20,000 supply IIRC.

John S · Post by **John S** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:44 pm

Sorry. My question is literally this.

At the start of the scenario, Lunga had about 150 mines at its location. How the mines got there I do not know but they were there at the start of the campaign (same with Gili Gili). I use my ML to pick up mines at Lunga and drop off mines near Shortland and other places. As I do so, the number of mines available at Lunga goes down (currently at about 50). Given the fact that mines somehow got to Lunga at the start of the Campaign, logic would say that over a Campaign lasting a year or more there is some method by which I can once again increase the number of mines available for ML's to pick up at Lunga by, for example, loading mines in cargo ships at Pearl and sending them to Lunga for unloading.

Sadly, however, I suspect that this is another instance in which logic and game structure take divergent courses but I truly hope that there is another answer.

tsimmonds · Post by **tsimmonds** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:02 pm

ORIGINAL: John S

Sorry. My question is literally this.

At the start of the scenario, Lunga had about 150 mines at its location. How the mines got there I do not know but they were there at the start of the campaign (same with Gili Gili). I use my ML to pick up mines at Lunga and drop off mines near Shortland and other places. As I do so, the number of mines available at Lunga goes down (currently at about 50). Given the fact that mines somehow got to Lunga at the start of the Campaign, logic would say that over a Campaign lasting a year or more there is some method by which I can once again increase the number of mines available for ML's to pick up at Lunga by, for example, loading mines in cargo ships at Pearl and sending them to Lunga for unloading.

Sadly, however, I suspect that this is another instance in which logic and game structure take divergent courses but I truly hope that there is another answer.

The mines that you see listed at Lunga are those that have been previously laid in defensive minefields. This is not a stockpile for you to draw from. To load mines you must be in a 9 or 10 port, or have an MLE in a hex with a base and sufficient (not 20,000) supplies, ie supply number green, not orange or red. If you are loading mines in Lunga you must have a MLE there somewhere. Otherwise, you only think that you are loading mines[;)]

freeboy · Post by **freeboy** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:16 pm

or the base must have a MLE in it with 20,000 supply IIRC.

or the base must have a MLE in it with 20,000 supply IIRC.

The supply ? came up before and we thought it was a base in supply, not 20000, can anyone veryfy this?

2ndACR · Post by **2ndACR** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:29 pm

No, I have seen the 20,000 number an awful lot. Seems to be the standard supply qoute for everything else. I may be mistaken, but I do not pay very close attention and I am not a heavy mine user.

One of these days I will run some tests to figure out the supply number. Of course there are alot of other things ahead of that to test.

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:48 pm

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

No, I have seen the 20,000 number an awful lot. Seems to be the standard supply qoute for everything else. I may be mistaken, but I do not pay very close attention and I am not a heavy mine user.

One of these days I will run some tests to figure out the supply number. Of course there are alot of other things ahead of that to test.

I can provide a little verification, maybe. I had an MLE at Darwin, and it would only resupply the minelayers operating out of that base if the supply level was at least in the green. The manual is not much help. All it talks about is a base with "sufficient" supply. Maybe this is what it means. For those with more knowledge than I, is the actual criterion 2x the base's required supply as it is in other contexts? It would be good to get a definitive answer on this.

(sorry about the pre-edit post. Not enough coffee yet this morning to get the old brain moving, I guess).

tsimmonds · Post by **tsimmonds** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:19 pm

It's in TFM, 14.2.1 Depots and Tenders, p 186 of the printed version:

"....may only load mines when in the hex with a size 9 or 10 port with sufficient supplies or in a hex with an MLE ship and a base with sufficient supplies..."

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:13 pm

Yes, I read the manual before posting. In fact, it says this in two different places (the other one is in the subsection on mine warfare missions). The problem is with what constitutes "sufficient supplies." If it's just the amount of supply necessary to keep the base from being in the orange or red, fine. If it's some other amount that is specific to replenishment of mines on minelayers, that's fine too. I'd just like to know which it is.

tsimmonds · Post by **tsimmonds** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:21 pm

I had assumed it meant green, but you're right, it might just as well mean orange. In fact, it could mean just however many supply points will get consumed by loading the mines onto the ML.

freeboy · Post by **freeboy** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:36 pm

I just loaded mines on DM at port with apx 6000 supply, so mix the 20k requirement. Port was a size 9 btw

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:22 pm

Well, I hate to be lawyerlike, but this may just be ... irrelevant ... to the matter of how much supply has to be present to enable an MLE to rearm minelayers. I suspect that "green" supply status is probably what's required, but a size 9 port is one thing and a tender is another ...

pry · Post by **pry** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:23 pm

IIRC unless specified as another amount like size x and x supplies,
the term "sufficient supplies" is anything over 2x normal base requirements

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:27 pm

ah-HAH! Now the cheese gets even more binding. 2x "normal" base requirements? Now we need to know what "normal" is. I never thought that interpretation of WitP rules would require the services of a psychotherapist and a philosopher...

WHAT IS REALITY?

pry · Post by **pry** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:36 pm

The normal base requirement changes based on what is stationed at the base but the base deatil screen will always tell you what it is.

Now if the base detail screen states the required supply is 1000, then you would need 2000 plus an extra amount say 500. The 500 would then be able to be transfered into mines.

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:20 am

Ah! It's perfectly clear now. You need twice an amount that changes depending on what you have at the base, move away from the base, or move into the base. Calculated when? But that's not enough. You've got to have some indeterminate additional amount that can be transmuted into mines (how much supply do you need to create one mine, anyway?). Sort of an "exploding barge" concept. I never heard of this before.

It all seems like a "sake in a SPAM can" mystery to me.

dtravel · Post by **dtravel** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 6:31 am

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

It all seems like a "sake in a SPAM can" mystery to me.

Exactly the way Mr. Grigsby wants it! [:D]

freeboy · Post by **freeboy** » Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:19 am

Don't mind one bit the supply issues, find the port size 9 a bit rough in the beginning, as one starts 12 41 with no mle, is that correct for a mile layer tender? anywho, getting some results already and forcing my pbem oponent to think about one more thing as he doesn't know where these bad boys will show up next

grumbler · Post by **grumbler** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:35 am

Ah! It's perfectly clear now. You need twice an amount that changes depending on what you have at the base, move away from the base, or move into the base. Calculated when?

Suply requirements do not change during a turn. And I looked closely the last time and saw no supply being consumed for mine loading (on a minelaying sub, in my case). I think it is just "green port 9 or green port plus MLE" to give you mine reloads.

tanker4145 · Post by **tanker4145** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:47 am

How can you see how many mines were in a friendly mine field? I didn't know this could be done.

Mines

Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines

RE: Mines