OT- Pacific Fighters

[Jon_Hal]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before but I finally recieved my copy of Pacific Fighters. A Flight Sim by the guys who made IL-2. I wondered how many flight Simmers actually played this game too. "Pacific Fighters" is a great game so far, but not without some glaring histrocal issues and ommisions. On the plus side you get a "Lot" of planes. Several models of the Wildcat, Hellcat, Corsair. A flyable Buffalo, Seaspit, Etc. The Lexington and Essex class ships look incredible in the game. If you are even a little interested in Flight Sims you should check it out.

http://www.pacific-fighters.com/en/pacific.php

Jon Out!

[RAM]

I purchased Il-2. Got terrified with the heavy pro-soviet bias of the game.

Didn't purchase FB, but got the chance to fly it a lot in an online meeting. Got even more terrified about the devastating modelling of certain (key) planes, while the pro-soviet bias already present in Il-2 was still there. My decision not to purchase FB was, thus, stronger after that.


They both are very immersive sims with state-of-the-art graphics and nice detail. But the horrific modelling of certain planes and the ever-present pro-russian bias drawed my attention away from Maddox Games' simulators forever.

Maddox says his simulators are as realistic and historically true as possible in today computers. And I'm not giving my money to blatant liers, as I won't ever buy a CFS from Micro$oft, either. HAd Maddox published his titles as the "most immersive", "best recreation of piston engined combat fights" without any claim about being very historically accurate, then I would probably buy them, for they are good simulators.

But he's still claiming he's doing the most realistic, accurate thing possible. Something which is plainly false. As I say, liers don't eat with my money, So I'm not getting PF, at all.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: RAM

I purchased Il-2. Got terrified with the heavy pro-soviet bias of the game.

Why do you say this? I own FB but have not had any chance to play it so cannot comment on it's authenticity.

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Ram
well, I think your a little wet dude

I agree that some of the planes are overmodelled, but so are some of the GE/GB/US planes

I got a GE pilot with over 150 kills, a Romy Pilot with 74 (patch broke that campaign, they changed the bomb load of his plane) a Fin pilot with over 50 kills

I do think there is some bias but what do you expect, it is a Russian game designer, if you go to the forums there, they have as many grogs there as we do here

my copy has been order and is shipped, hope to get it monday

will say, my HARDcore Full real friends, just love it

HARD_Sarge

[Vladd]

Hi RAM

I'd give Pacific Fighters a try. It is immersive, the CVs and other ships are tremendous, graphics amazing. Some features of IL2 have been impoved also - no more ridiculous blinding muzzle flashes for example.

No Soviet bias as a problem given the main combatents either

[Caltone]

I'm enjoying it. I was also fan of FB. It's really of the only thing we have atm, so I'm glad it's out there. Fun, looks good, nice flight model, and good campaign.

[RAM]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: RAM

I purchased Il-2. Got terrified with the heavy pro-soviet bias of the game.

Why do you say this? I own FB but have not had any chance to play it so cannot comment on it's authenticity.

Hmmmm...I'll only comment the problems on ONE of the plane types of the planeset of where this is very present in Il-2:

There were three versions of the Fw190 in the game (and posterior official patches): Fw190A4,A5 and A8.

All of them were modelled with not that great performance given the performance curves for the given planes.

The A4 was particularly punished: was modelled using TsAGI performances which were shown as wrong because the plane tested was faulty. The climb performances are similar to that of a de-rated 190A4, when in russia no Fw190Anton flew with derated engines after the move from Fw190A3 to A4.

The Fw190A8, with special C3 injection into the engine was cleared for 1.58ata for ,literally, "all the emergency time needed", from, previously ,being cleared for usage of 10 minutes in a row. In the game the engine overheats after 3-4 minutes of special injection. In real life in late 1944 the emergency C3 injection was cleared for use at any altitudes up to 4000m. In the game over 1000m you get no benefit from it.


in contrast, ALL and EVERY soviet fighter modelled in the plane is modelled after their BEST performance curves. Something up to ridiculous levels when you see a La5FN achieving 590km/h@SL (something which only the La7s and very late 45' La5FNs were able to do, when the FN was flying from 1943...result: in a 1943 planeset you get a 1945 La5FN. Great). And you take AGES to overheat a soviet engine compared with the german ones...the La5, for instance, is almost impossible to overheat if you let radiators open.


Fw190s and Bf109s' pilots were prone to be killed with a single rifle caliber impact in the plane, as if there was no armored plates in it. It grew to extremely ridicule happenings, such as getting a hit in the lower fusselage and getting the pilot hit (ultra-AP 7.92mm soviet ShKAS ammunition????)


Extremely weird energy-loss modelling on certain planes. Fw190 was reportedly (and markedly) unable to do any kind of move out of diving&zooming as anything in the horizontal plane would cause an almost instantaneous 100km/h loss in a couple seconds. Even the Dive&Zoom ability is seriously impaired :the pull-out causes too much E-bleed.


Horrible frontal cockpit view from one of the planes with best cockpit view of WW2. Refraction from inclined armored frontal glass is not modelled. REsult: half of the gunsight is covered by an horrible metal bar that wasn't visible in the true Fw190. Result nº2: it's impossible to hit anything lower than the center of your gunsight, deflection snapshots (the key for 190 success) are seriously imparied.

It's so ridiculous that the cockpit view from a Bf109 is BETTER than one in a 190 (and the 109 view has also its own problems, to start with), something which is clearly wrong according to any source one can try to seek.


Ridiculous ammunition model. half of the 30mm load of the Mk108-fitted planes is useless. Oleg insisted to model the 30mm tracer round (which was rarely used in the east) and include it in the ammunition of the gun. Result: 50% of your 30mm hits are useless.


etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc...and etcetera.

and those are problems with ONLY Il-2. If I go into FB I can last forever (someone tells me how is possible that a Fw190D9 with low-pressure Mw50 injection has BETTER performance than a later Fw190D9 with HIGH-pressure Mw50 injection????)---so I won't get into that.


As a fighters simulator is a GREAT game. Both Il-2 and FB. As a high-fidelity WW-2 fighters simulator, it's crap because of the very numerous errors present....and as they insist on marketing it as the second, I'm not buying anything from them. As simple as that .

[Caltone]

Just a short follow up. The link below is to a set of screenshots detailing the attack on PH. The guy is in a Val onboard the Akagi and managed to get some nice pics of his trip. Thought everyone might enjoy these.

Pacific Fighters Screenshots

[RAM]

As I said ,if it is for graphics or immersion, Il-2&follow ons are the best simulators around, bar none.

But as an historical-high-fidelity simulator it's not (by far). Had they changed the planes' graphics from upside down,changed its name for "piston engined planes",and stopped pretending it's a WW2 simulator, I would play it with no problem...

however, I'm an historical nut, and seeing planes under or overperforming WAY over (or under) their historical counterparts destroys all the fun out from me. But admitedly I'm a WW2 fighters freak so unless you're as freak as me, Maddox games' simulators are really great...just don't extract "historical" conclussions out from it

[Bane_MatrixForum]

You'll get a kick out of this [:D]

[nico71]

Oleg "All-western-sources-propaganda" Maddox? LOL! Yeah, it's true! The heavy pro-soviet bias has killed the game for me. I was a member in three online-squads for two years. I was really willing to give it a chance and give Oleg a chance to fix it. He didn't. So I gave up on it. This bias issue is not new. There are sims out there with uber US-aircraft. The problem with Maddox is that he only accepts Russian sources as they are (in his opinion) the only reliable ones.

Nevertheless, I gave PF a chance as well. My expectations weren't really high, and that's why I'm not really disappointed. I thought that Oleg can't break it because there are no Russian fighters. But I was wrong! Well, The A6M2, at least, is indeed a flying zippo! A single rifle caliber round has killed both the pilot and the engine and has set my Zero aflame. And this has happened several times now. The A6M2 is an easy prey for the F4F-3 in PF. If I fly the latter I can easily outturn the Zero and kill it with a short burst. I didn't test the later US aircraft, but from what I gather the 7-tons monster Hellcat can outrun, outdive and outturn any Japanese plane. Have to test it more thoroughly, though. I was excited about the carrier ops, but they are simplified and become boring quickly.

Then I tried an offline campaign mission as a Beaufighter driver in Guinea. Just to watch the entire flight crashing into the next hill. After more than two years this issue has not been adressed.

PF is, like its predecessors, a nice online game with WWII aircraft for a quick dogfight in between. Nothing more.

[Halsey]

I particularly liked the KGV's in BB row![:D]

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: Halsey

I particularly liked the KGV's in BB row![:D]

Yeah, that cracked me up too. Seven of them! Who knew? Must have been like a reverse Lend-Lease.

[RevRick]

Well, that settles the "realism" aspect of this game for me... Won't waste my time.

[nico71]

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Well, that settles the "realism" aspect of this game for me... Won't waste my time.

Well, those ships at PH are a very minor issue. I mean, c'mon! You don't expect 3D-modellers to create models for a bunch of BBs just for a single mission?! I mean, modelling a single ship is much more demanding and time consuming than modelling a little simple aircraft. I've done both and I know what I am talking about! Yes, as stated above, there are some issues with PF, but let's not stretch it too far!

[tsimmonds]

They could at least have done a generic US Standard Type BB.

[steveh11Matrix]

I'm guessing that the next mission is an attack on Prince of Wales and Prince of Wales! [:)]

Steve.

[UncleBuck]

I play IL_2 FB and will be getting PF when my squad moves to it. THey say that upgradingto PF will cause problems with servers that are not also updated. My Squads server is not upgraded to PF yet so I am holding off.

UB

[NimitsTexan]

The KGV is a place holder; evidently alot of content was left out of the CDs (UBI and 1C did were cheap and did not want to spring for a third cd) and so will be available for download as a patch very soon. I am guessing some WWI US BBs will be in there.

[Milman]

The problem with Maddox is that he only accepts Russian sources as they are (in his opinion) the only reliable ones.

Don't you think that west europe and North american companies do the same thing ? They also use USA as only reliable source of history facts witch they implement in video games .