How can you guys stand PBEM?

[bordric]

I keep hearing all this talk about pbem but I could not imagine playing like that. Turns are painful enough against the AI, 1 or 2 turns a day would take years to finish one of the long scenario's.

Do you just play the small scenario's ?

[mogami]

Hi, No we play the monsters. What is the rush? Why create a game this size and detail and then desire to finsih 1600+turns overnight. If you don't get enough turns from 1 PBEM game you play 2. If that leaves you twiddling your thumbs you play 3.
In PBEM there are many guys who would laugh at the notion of only doing 2 or 3 turns per day. But the real issue is being in a rush to finish a game. As long as turns arrive on a regular bases there is no problem. The fun is in playing. Not in finishing. The end will come when it comes. But you have to fight the war like you do not know the end date.
I'm not really interested in playing anyone who just wants to rush to the finish. Sometimes you have to take a day or two on 1 turn. Othertimes you send 10 in one day but it is never about speed only in doing it the best you can. I think (I hope) I will live long enough to play several complete games with the same person but I'm not looking to the next game. You can't play it that way and thinking of it in those terms would spoil the experiance. It is supposed to take a while. Thats why the game has 1 day turns and not seasonal turns or monthly turns or weekly turns.

[2ndACR]

PBEM is the ultimate. The AI will never compare to a sneaky, devious human.

Me and Ron average about 6 turns per day on most days. Me and Pzb average 2 turns a day.

And that is just average. Me and Ron have done 12 turns in one day a couple of times. But a month of game time per week of real time is the norm.

[ltfightr]

I have 2 games as allied scenerio 15 on 1 day turns

I am playing a 4 person team game as the Ijn also scenerio 15 on 1 day turns.

I also have an UV game going since 10-03.

If you have multiple games you almost always have a turn inbound or outbound.

[mbatch729]

PBEM is GREAT. The challenge of a (usually) thinking person, the friendly insults and banter, the gloating when you pull off that miracle move...So what if it is going to take me 3 years or more to finish a game? The journey is what's important, not the destination...

[kaleun]

Ditto.
Due to real life constraints, sometimes I only get in one turn a day. Sometimes more. I now have 3 games going.
Have not played the AI since about one week after I got the game.

[The Gnome]

Not everyone loves PBEM, don't let 'em fool ya . I prefer playing the PC.

[WiTP_Dude]

The AI is more painful because it is utterly stupid. All players should win by 1943 playing the AI. Despite that, what's the point of playing against a machine anyway?

[bilbow]

ORIGINAL: mbatch729

PBEM is GREAT. The challenge of a (usually) thinking person, the friendly insults and banter, the gloating when you pull off that miracle move...So what if it is going to take me 3 years or more to finish a game? The journey is what's important, not the destination...

Can't agree more. Mbatch and I played one game of UV that ran from Sept 02 to Feb 04, all the way to 12/31/43. We averaged about 1 turn a day, and when it ended, it was like losing a friend. Jap victory on points I might add.[:D]

[bordric]

I don't know, but finishing the game fast is not the issue, finishing the game in a lifetime would be nice though.

I guess it is just perspective. Yes the victory and final defeat of the enemy is the goal for me anyway, getting there should not be rushed but getting there is nice.

At least the computer is always there even with its limitations I think its fun, no need to wait for vacations or people having a bad day, or all the other things that happen in life.

No doubt a human is more challenge but for a game of this size the AI is not bad at all.

Now in 4 or 5 years when the next computer generation hits and will be able to finish a turn sequence like PACWAR then I will play ya. But then PBEM in PACWAR still had all those human issues involved..

[mogami]

Hi, You know there are people who still play chess by snail mail.
I think the game of WITP will go faster then the actual war and people survived that and a few are still even around today. I'll still be playing WITP 10 years from now. (I was still playing PACWAR when UV came out)

[bordric]

Yeah I played a PACWAR game month ago, been playing it 10 years or so. [;)]

[wobbly]

I think you guys are all missing the reason for the attractiveness of this game and how it lends itself to PBEM.

The little victories!

You have a plan, you get the pieces into position for the plan, and then you pull it off successfully. Right next plan. Or maybe you don't pull it off - now it is scramble to get as many pieces out of the crap that you have placed them in.

It is also the milestones. Waiting for that carrier, the one that will even the odds or give you the odds - right now enemy you are for it! Or maybe the new and powerful fighter to come online.

This just doesn't work against the AI. What does it care? It'll loose all it's carriers and still keep rolling along with a failed invasion. You sit outside the invasion hex and pound the poor infantry into the coral. That would bore the tears out of you in no time, and in that case you should indeed be asking yourself "why play this game, turn at a time for 4 years"?

So the game is a massive undertaken but it is beautifully broken down into managable chunks by the little victories or defeats. You take each as they come and the interest factor just doesn't wane.

[mogami]

Hi, Yes that is true. Also the game is much more fun once you forget about winning or losing it and concentrate on doing the best you can and winning a battle here and there along the way. A person who frets about losing a game of WITP should never play the Japanese in the long campaign. (It is almost a done deal)
The fun is in messing up the plans of the enemy when you can and keeping out of his clutches when you can't.

[bordric]

So basically unless you play PBEM the game is broke and there is no need to even have it? Because the AI is broke and can not/will not be fixed...

That is not good news for someone who just started playing. Especially considering the price. I would venture to say most did not purchase it to play PBEM.

All the talk about fretting I am not sure where that came from. Not fretting about losing, if there was no chance to lose then not much of a game. Although playing the Allies you would have to be really horrible to lose.

[mogami]

Hi, Unless you know what you are doing you will not know the AI is broke. (It's not broken it's still just an AI and all AI in everygame ever made are broken once you learn to play the game)
One hint you are ready for PBEM is when you can prove the AI is "broke"

The AI will kick the snot out of you at first.

[kaleun]

Hmmmm. I started playing PBEM long before I figured out the AI was broken. Come to think of it, I haven't figured that out because I haven't played it for more than 7 game turns.[&:]

[mogami]

Hi, The AI is no match for the guys who use wild exotic invade everywhere conquer the world styles. It does a decent job against players who think they should have aircontrol before they invade. Who don't steal units from Manchuria or Korea. And who know they understand the game so at the start they choose the hardest setting rather then easy or historic.
The Historic setting means you are going to play "historically" and you wish the AI to do the same.
Unless you are trashing the AI on the hardest setting while confining yourself to a somewhat historic (by this I mean you worry about losing ships aircraft and men needlessly) style then you can't say the AI is broken. Broken means it does not do what it is designed to do.
If you really want to see the AI and think you are a genius then play Japan on hardest setting and start the 1944 Campaign. (or at least the 1943 one)
The AI is almost unbeatable here.

[madflava13]

This game's too complex to make an AI that will give a human a run for his money time after time. That doesn't mean the game's broken. It just means 2by3 doesn't have 6 billion to devote to "Big Blue - WitP style"...

[bordric]

Well PBEM is too boring and relies on the AI of the Human which in most cases in my past let you down. LOL

I had lots of rules in the pre-Matrix Pacwar game, no bombing Palmbang(sp) oil fields etc. I also prefer historical play, I would really like to be able to play like the South Pacific while the rest of the war goes on around me. But I was told the AI is too weak for this also and it does not work well.

Perhaps it should have shipped with only PBEM? [:'(] At least then you know what you are buying, although I would venture to say 90% would not buy...