What would Hitler have used for Victory Points?

[leehunt27@bloomberg.net]

Napoleon captured Moscow and still lost in Russia.

My question is, what do you think of potential alternative Victory Point scores for Stalingrad, Leningrad & Moscow? How about 2 for each instead of 3 or Moscow and 1 for the others.

In reading some various WWII books I've noticed that Moscow was not necessarily the "main" objective, but it became that in the fall of 1941. Liddell Hart (in Strategy) comments that Hitler prized the Ukraine for economic reasons and Leningrad as well, but to some extent his panzer generals kept shifting the main objective towards Moscow. In '42 Hitler was loath to give up the Donetz basin and the manganese ore in Ukraine. Liddell Hart goes as far as saying Hitler may have wanted to perform a "Cannae-like" operation on Russia and flank the center with the Ukraine and Leningrad.

If Stalingrad and Leningrad were worth 2 each (and Moscow worth 2), the German player could also not be so obvious in his main line of advance. He could keep the Russians guessing where he wanted to go, an advantage Hitler did have that the WiR player doesn't really have.

i'm curious to what you guys think and have experienced in playing the game many times. I'm currently the German in 2 PBEM games after having played Second Front a couple times years ago.

[m39 white death]

Hi Lee,

From my reading, the main objective in Barborossa was always the destruction of the Red Army. Strategic resources and key cities were also important, but secondary. I think the German staff and Hitler were aware of Napolean's campaign, realizing that unless they inflicted a mortal blow to the Red Army it would just fall back, regroup, and continue the fight, even after the fall of Leningrad and Moscow, as Napolean's army found out, the hard way.

The game models this pretty well, placing the bulk of Soviet manpower replacements off the map in the Urals. Also, much of Soviet industry can be railed there as well, as was historical. I think the current victory conditions and population/resource values for cities are a fair representation of the campaign.

I think that to make the game more balanced in '41, the Soviet player should be able to rail out as much industry as he wants. You can still only rail one factory per turn, but at least the fall of Moscow is not as catastrophic. Also, placing more resources in the Urals might help.