I've never played the board game and was hoping one of the veterans could give me a quick description. I really enjoy grand strategy games and right now I'm waiting out World at War. This may be the next "must have". Plus, what other games have the developers completed?
CPT B
FLY ARMY!
Never Played World in Flames
Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets
Never Played World in Flames
CPT B
FLY ARMY!
FLY ARMY!
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Cheesehead
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:48 pm
- Location: Appleton, Wisconsin
RE: Never Played World in Flames
For a good description check out Juaha's WiF site at: http://www.saunalahti.fi/juhajans/wif.htm
or
http://home.earthlink.net/~devinc/wif.htm
My two cents: I've only been playing WiF for a couple of years, but I've immersed myself into the culture. IMO it is the best grand strategy WWII game out there. One of the outstanding characteristics of the game is that it is impossible to say which side has the advantage. There are enough optional rules in this game to alter the balance in any way you want. The only downside to the game is its size (the maps take up more than a sheet of plywood) which means you have to have a room in your home that you devote to WiF for the 100 hours or so that it takes to play a campaign game. If Matrix can successfully put this game on the computer, it will be the event of the century in strategy wargaming circles.
or
http://home.earthlink.net/~devinc/wif.htm
My two cents: I've only been playing WiF for a couple of years, but I've immersed myself into the culture. IMO it is the best grand strategy WWII game out there. One of the outstanding characteristics of the game is that it is impossible to say which side has the advantage. There are enough optional rules in this game to alter the balance in any way you want. The only downside to the game is its size (the maps take up more than a sheet of plywood) which means you have to have a room in your home that you devote to WiF for the 100 hours or so that it takes to play a campaign game. If Matrix can successfully put this game on the computer, it will be the event of the century in strategy wargaming circles.
You can't fight in here...this is the war room!
RE: Never Played World in Flames
Cheesehead can have my two cents. I couldn't say it any better.
RE: Never Played World in Flames
Hello CPT B,
I have been playing WiF since 1991, with pretty much the same group of friends. It is my second favorite board game (after chess). If you have a couple of hundred hours free and a 5'X9' playing surface, I recommend WiFFE Deluxe very highly. The game is complex, but not needlessly so.
A very innovative feature of the game is its sequence of play. A game consists of 36 two-month turns covering all large-scale theatres of the war from the invasion of Poland through VJ day. Each turn is further subdivided into multiple impulses, the exact number being unpredictable. Essentially, the longer the turn goes on, the more likely it will end. I would guess the average number of impulses is 5 or 6, but there tend to be more during summer turns (campaign season) and fewer during winter ones.
The sides alternate impulses, and weather is rolled every other impulse. During a side's impulse, each major power chooses a type of action that restricts their activities limits; options include land, naval, air and combined actions. Each of the first three allows unlimited activity of that type, whereas the combined action allows limited activity of all three types, depending on the major power taking it.
Land combat is pretty standard wargames stuff, with HQs that trace supply and reorganize disrupted units, but the naval and air combat systems are both innovative. Although hexdots regulate aircraft movement at sea, boats utilize an abstract system of large sea areas and sea boxes that very effectively simulate opposing navies having to search for eachother. Aircraft fight it out often in any activity, and the air-to-air system is exciting and simple, allowing a variety of "bombing" missions, escorting fighters at full range, and interceptors at half-range.
The counter mix for each power is updated annually to reflect improving technology, and older units can be "scrapped" so as to avoid drawing them during the end of turn build phase. Units vary in the time it takes to build them, as well as their cost (and oil dependency if you are using that rule).
One feature that keeps the game from bogging down is the use of offensive chits. A major power can use an OC in any type of action. In all but a combined action, the OC is played on a particular HQ, doubling the factors of some units as appropriate, or reorganizing lots of ships if in a naval action. If used in a "super-combined" action, the chit allows that power to perform unlimited activities of all types during that impulse. A fifth alternative for an OC is using it to reorganize all of a power's HQs. Since they are so powerful, OCs cost a lot -- 15 build points (as much as five infantry units).
WiF also includes simple but effective political rules that in some cases allow major powers to align minors provided certain conditions are met. The effects of neutrality pacts are included. I find the Nazi-Soviet rules to be especially well done. U.S. entry into the war is separate for the European and Pacific theatres, and is an aspect that provides a lot of the play balance: if the Axis are too aggressive the Americans tend to enter the war early, and if the Allies are too aggresive early (or the Axis timid) the Yanks can enter it quite late.
Victory is expressed in terms of objective cities controlled at the end, and a bidding process at the beginning allows players to choose the major powers they want at the cost of increasing their anticipated objective total. Obviously, the U.S. and Germany are very popular powers, as is the Commonwealth, so they usually go with pretty high bids. The change left over from all the bids is subtracted from the final power's bid (in a six-player game that is most likely going to be Italy), so that power can sometimes finish the game with victory points even if they have no objectives!
WiF, and especially WiFFE Deluxe, is to me the ultimate wargame. I love the challenge. So many variables exist that optimizing your play is a goal you can never achieve completely. I find it completely immersive and totally enjoyable. No wonder it was voted Best 20th Century Game by Fire and Movement, among its many accolades.
As to ADG, If you like WiF, you may enjoy playing with their expansion, Days of Decision III, which allows the run-up to the war to be played politically and militarily, starting in 1936. DoD is also a stand-alone game, but I feel it is best played with WiF. ADG also has two what-if products in the WiF line, America in Flames (about what would have happened if the Axis had won against Russia and the UK, and then moved on to invade the Americas) and Patton in Flames (about what would have happened if after WWII, the Western Allies had gone to war with the Soviets).
As for non-WWII games, ADG created Empires in Arms, a sweeping simulation of the Napoleonic Wars which Matrix is also adapting for the computer. Most recently, ADG has released 7 Ages, a small game by their standards that covers the history of the world in one (long) sitting. They also have a game called Rubout, about Mob activity in a city, but I have never played it.
I hope I this helps answer some of your questions. Mziln is correct that Patrice's site is great for finding out about WiF, or you can go to ADG's site to see their catalog of products:
http://www.a-d-g.com.au/
I have been playing WiF since 1991, with pretty much the same group of friends. It is my second favorite board game (after chess). If you have a couple of hundred hours free and a 5'X9' playing surface, I recommend WiFFE Deluxe very highly. The game is complex, but not needlessly so.
A very innovative feature of the game is its sequence of play. A game consists of 36 two-month turns covering all large-scale theatres of the war from the invasion of Poland through VJ day. Each turn is further subdivided into multiple impulses, the exact number being unpredictable. Essentially, the longer the turn goes on, the more likely it will end. I would guess the average number of impulses is 5 or 6, but there tend to be more during summer turns (campaign season) and fewer during winter ones.
The sides alternate impulses, and weather is rolled every other impulse. During a side's impulse, each major power chooses a type of action that restricts their activities limits; options include land, naval, air and combined actions. Each of the first three allows unlimited activity of that type, whereas the combined action allows limited activity of all three types, depending on the major power taking it.
Land combat is pretty standard wargames stuff, with HQs that trace supply and reorganize disrupted units, but the naval and air combat systems are both innovative. Although hexdots regulate aircraft movement at sea, boats utilize an abstract system of large sea areas and sea boxes that very effectively simulate opposing navies having to search for eachother. Aircraft fight it out often in any activity, and the air-to-air system is exciting and simple, allowing a variety of "bombing" missions, escorting fighters at full range, and interceptors at half-range.
The counter mix for each power is updated annually to reflect improving technology, and older units can be "scrapped" so as to avoid drawing them during the end of turn build phase. Units vary in the time it takes to build them, as well as their cost (and oil dependency if you are using that rule).
One feature that keeps the game from bogging down is the use of offensive chits. A major power can use an OC in any type of action. In all but a combined action, the OC is played on a particular HQ, doubling the factors of some units as appropriate, or reorganizing lots of ships if in a naval action. If used in a "super-combined" action, the chit allows that power to perform unlimited activities of all types during that impulse. A fifth alternative for an OC is using it to reorganize all of a power's HQs. Since they are so powerful, OCs cost a lot -- 15 build points (as much as five infantry units).
WiF also includes simple but effective political rules that in some cases allow major powers to align minors provided certain conditions are met. The effects of neutrality pacts are included. I find the Nazi-Soviet rules to be especially well done. U.S. entry into the war is separate for the European and Pacific theatres, and is an aspect that provides a lot of the play balance: if the Axis are too aggressive the Americans tend to enter the war early, and if the Allies are too aggresive early (or the Axis timid) the Yanks can enter it quite late.
Victory is expressed in terms of objective cities controlled at the end, and a bidding process at the beginning allows players to choose the major powers they want at the cost of increasing their anticipated objective total. Obviously, the U.S. and Germany are very popular powers, as is the Commonwealth, so they usually go with pretty high bids. The change left over from all the bids is subtracted from the final power's bid (in a six-player game that is most likely going to be Italy), so that power can sometimes finish the game with victory points even if they have no objectives!
WiF, and especially WiFFE Deluxe, is to me the ultimate wargame. I love the challenge. So many variables exist that optimizing your play is a goal you can never achieve completely. I find it completely immersive and totally enjoyable. No wonder it was voted Best 20th Century Game by Fire and Movement, among its many accolades.
As to ADG, If you like WiF, you may enjoy playing with their expansion, Days of Decision III, which allows the run-up to the war to be played politically and militarily, starting in 1936. DoD is also a stand-alone game, but I feel it is best played with WiF. ADG also has two what-if products in the WiF line, America in Flames (about what would have happened if the Axis had won against Russia and the UK, and then moved on to invade the Americas) and Patton in Flames (about what would have happened if after WWII, the Western Allies had gone to war with the Soviets).
As for non-WWII games, ADG created Empires in Arms, a sweeping simulation of the Napoleonic Wars which Matrix is also adapting for the computer. Most recently, ADG has released 7 Ages, a small game by their standards that covers the history of the world in one (long) sitting. They also have a game called Rubout, about Mob activity in a city, but I have never played it.
I hope I this helps answer some of your questions. Mziln is correct that Patrice's site is great for finding out about WiF, or you can go to ADG's site to see their catalog of products:
http://www.a-d-g.com.au/
"The creative combination lays bare the presumption of a lie." -- Lasker
Keith Henderson
Keith Henderson
RE: Never Played World in Flames
With such a devoted fan base, I'm definitely going to watch for this one. Is the pc version going to include all the add-ons like Cruisers and Convoys and Patton? Thanks for the info, great fan sites!
CPT B
FLY ARMY!
CPT B
FLY ARMY!
CPT B
FLY ARMY!
FLY ARMY!
RE: Never Played World in Flames
The last copy of the beta demo had the RaW (Rules as Written) that are supposed to be included with MWiF(Matrix World in Flames). Yup this included all the add ons like Convoys in Flames and Patton in Flames.
Sorry, Matrix has requested the old beta demo not be distributed.
Sorry, Matrix has requested the old beta demo not be distributed.
RE: Never Played World in Flames
So is the board game at all suitable for solitaire play? I used to play games like Advanced Squad Leader and A3R solitaire, and I enjoyed it. Of course, now I've got my WITP addiction to feed...
RE: Never Played World in Flames
I've never tried it solitaire. It seems to me the problem with solitaire WiF over-the-board would be that if you play both sides, you get to see inside the strategic mind of the other side, which takes a lot of the suspense and guessing game out of it. I imagine it would play a lot quicker though. It is best played with two- to- five people in my opinion, so that Italy doesn't have to be a player's only focus.
"The creative combination lays bare the presumption of a lie." -- Lasker
Keith Henderson
Keith Henderson
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Cheesehead
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 5:48 pm
- Location: Appleton, Wisconsin
RE: Never Played World in Flames
I think its omportant for beginners to play a few solitaire games to try some different things. If you're about to play an experienced player and you've never played a campaign game with naval combat, US entry, etc. you will probably get your ass handed to you. The naval aspect of the game is something that does not come natural to an experienced wargamer that has never played WiF. Solitaire is a good format to try some different things like Germany invading Spain right after the fall of France (can you do it in time for a '41 Barbarossa?). In one solitaire game I tried to have the Axis align Yugoslavia before Barbarossa. I did align Yugo, but realized that Rumania would not align with Germany until after I declared war on Russia...so I had to invade Russia without being able to set up in Rumania! Big mistake. A lot of these things you can figure out from reading and re-reading the rules, but playing it out solitaire really makes it hit home. Believe it or not, there still is some drama when you play solitaire because of some of the random events...weather rolls, search rolls, and combat results. The solitaire games I've played I usually have one side play a standard game, generally following historical play, and the other side try some different strategies. It's not like there's a fog of war component in the board game you have to similate. I highly recommend any beginner play a couple of solitaire WiF games.
You can't fight in here...this is the war room!
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BurntFingers
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:13 pm
RE: Never Played World in Flames
Something I didn't see mentioned in the above posts - Days of Decision (DOD).
This was a board expansion, allowing both Axis and Allied players to recreate the years 1936 to the start of the war. So the Spanish Civil War can (or may not) break out early, giving new players a taste of how the combat rules work.
The political choices (which may or may not work) also allow each game of WIF to have a slightly different start point.
There's a lot of expnansions for WIF, but in my opinion, DOD was by far the most entertaining AND useful - an unusual combo.
This was a board expansion, allowing both Axis and Allied players to recreate the years 1936 to the start of the war. So the Spanish Civil War can (or may not) break out early, giving new players a taste of how the combat rules work.
The political choices (which may or may not work) also allow each game of WIF to have a slightly different start point.
There's a lot of expnansions for WIF, but in my opinion, DOD was by far the most entertaining AND useful - an unusual combo.
I don't work here. I just collect the glasses to get a beer quicker.
RE: Never Played World in Flames
ORIGINAL: Grotius
So is the board game at all suitable for solitaire play? I used to play games like Advanced Squad Leader and A3R solitaire, and I enjoyed it. Of course, now I've got my WITP addiction to feed...
Check out the link: WiF-RaW-7-aug-04.zip