Never Never Weres

War Plan Orange: Dreadnoughts in the Pacific 1922-1930, from the team that brought you War in the Pacific.

Moderator: Tankerace

Post Reply
User avatar
Tankerace
Posts: 5408
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 12:23 pm
Location: Stillwater, OK, United States

Never Never Weres

Post by Tankerace »

Several people have asked for them, and I originally said no. However, I have decided that in a new scenario, I will include 3 "Never" Never Weres, the British G3, the Japanese Kii, and the American South Dakota 18inch class.

They are in the databases of all WPO scenarios, but are only in a special version of the 1926 campaign. This way, players can play with or without them, and I can make all parties happy. So:

Image
The British G3, or Invincible class HMS Trafalgar. Since historians have not completely agreed on what their names would have been, I will use a blend, using Invincible, Indefatigeable, Trafalgar, and St. Andrew.

856 feet long, these battlecruisers have 9 16" guns and 16 6 inch guns. The only battlecruisers more powerful are the Japanese Amagis.

Image
The 18 inch gunned South Dakotas. In the "Never" never were scenario, the first three SoDaks are the Cage masted 16inch gunned versions, while the later three are in this configuration. This design represents the design to switch out the 12 16" for 8 18", plus the rumored possibility that the SoDaks would have been completed with tripods, especially the latter ones.

The Kii class are identical to the Amagis, though their armor is on the scale of the Tosas and they are capable of 29 knots.

The orginal five WPO scenarios/campaigns have these ships in the OOB, but the ships are not included, and the 18inch SoDaks arrive as 16inch gunned SoDaks.
Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.
User avatar
Deathtreader
Posts: 1058
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 3:49 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada.

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by Deathtreader »

Hi,

Great stuff Tankerace!!! But, shouldn't the 18 inch SoDak's show mounts of 2 instead of 3 ?? Sorry for nitpicking.............

Rob.
So we're at war with the Russkies eh?? I suppose we really ought to invade or something. (Lonnnng pause while studying the map)
Hmmmm... big place ain't it??
- Sir Harry Flashman (1854)
User avatar
Tankerace
Posts: 5408
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 12:23 pm
Location: Stillwater, OK, United States

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by Tankerace »

hahahahhaha.....oops.

Fixed.
Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.
User avatar
WhoCares
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:20 am

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by WhoCares »

Do you happen to have the arrival dates for those ships handy? Are those dates based on specific sources or some kind of 'guesstimates' with respect to shipyard allocation a.s.o., somewhere between the ~3yrs for Nagato and 4yrs for Yamato?

Did you add all four planned Kiis?

Did you also consider to add the later 'Number 13' BC/fast BB, or is was it to much concept? Link: IJN Battleships

Edit: Found some more info on Project 13: Link: Steelnavy - Project 13 (modelling! a Link: Plan
Four battleships of unprecedented size and strength, designed by Admiral Hiraga, who had designed the Nagato Class. These four, designated numbers 13 through 16, were to be 915 feet long and displace 47,500 tons normal load. With a machine plant producing 150,000 shp, they would be capable of 30 knot speed. They designed to mount eight eighteen-inch/45 guns with a secondary of 16 5.5-inch/50 in casemates and four 5-inch AA guns in open mounts. Lastly they were to be equipped with eight 24-inch above water torpedo tubes in fixed positions in the hull. They were to be laid down in 1922 and completed in 1927.
ImageImage
User avatar
Tankerace
Posts: 5408
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 12:23 pm
Location: Stillwater, OK, United States

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by Tankerace »

The arrival dates are:

Kii and Owari to start in 1926 Super Dreadnought scenario. (May 1926)
All G3s are completed by the time they arrive in 1929.
SoDak arrival dates are:

South Dakota February 1926
Indiana March 1927
Montana March 1927 (Is a SoDak 18 inch in Super Dreadnought Scen)
North Carolina November 1925
Iowa January 1928 (Is a SoDak 18inch in Super Dreadnought Scen)
Massachusetts January 1928 (Is a SoDak 18inch in Super Dreadnought Scen)

They are based on rough "guestimations" based on how long comparative dreadnoughts took to build, state of completion in 1922, etc.
Nos. 11 and 12, the final 2 Kiis, are not included. I decided that on Never were designs, I would only include those ships that 1) could be completed by 1930, 2) had a finalized design by 1922-23, 3) Were named or a set of names had been given, and 4) had the Washington Treaty not been signed, the ships would have been completed.

I figured that Number 13 would completed late, and as it was a project didn't meet my "criteria" to be included.
Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.
Alikchi2
Posts: 1786
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 9:29 pm
Contact:

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by Alikchi2 »

I like it! I especially like the G3s.. I've heard several people refer to them as "1920's Iowas"...

I'll be buying your work, kudos to you. [:)]
1275psi
Posts: 7987
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:47 pm

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by 1275psi »

This has tipped the scales for me -looks like I too will have to buy this game.
big seas, fast ships, life tastes better with salt
User avatar
RedLancer
Posts: 4338
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:09 am
Location: UK

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by RedLancer »


Is there any reason that you didn't include the British N3s ? Not having played WitP can additional ship types be added later by mere intelligent mortals or does it require an official patch from on high?

Whatever the answer subject to Domestic Chief of Staff approval (or failing that subterfuge) I will definitely getting the game.

Red Lancer

P.S. As an orbat junkie and kit spotter is any chance of a list of all the ship and aircraft types in the game?
John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev
User avatar
DuckofTindalos
Posts: 39781
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:53 pm
Location: Denmark

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by DuckofTindalos »

That would be a HUGE list, even for WPO, which has a substantially smaller list of aircraft than WitP.
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
kkoovvoo
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:49 pm
Location: Slovakia
Contact:

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by kkoovvoo »

ORIGINAL: Tankerace


Image

Hi Tanker,

I believe, the MOUNT for heavy guns should by 2 instead 3.
User avatar
DuckofTindalos
Posts: 39781
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:53 pm
Location: Denmark

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by DuckofTindalos »

It's already been mentioned earlier in the thread.
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
User avatar
steveh11Matrix
Posts: 943
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:54 am
Contact:

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by steveh11Matrix »

I plan on adding the N3's anyway - although I'm not sure they meet Tankerace's criteria fully: would they have been ready in time?

Oooh, I can't wait for my Christmas Bonus so I can buy this!

Steve.
"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci
User avatar
Tankerace
Posts: 5408
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 12:23 pm
Location: Stillwater, OK, United States

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by Tankerace »

Actually, I may (read may) do some fun stuff later, and go "hog wild" with the various Japanese and British plans, and add in all of Tillman's projects. Wouldn't be realistic, but it would be fun! [:D]
Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.
User avatar
Tankerace
Posts: 5408
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 12:23 pm
Location: Stillwater, OK, United States

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by Tankerace »

Even though these are Alnavco models:

Image
BB-1923, a SoDak with 12 18inchers

Image
BB-1922, a SoDak with 8 18inchers (this is the Tillman in WPO)

Image
The Tillman IV-2 design, a 1917 plan for a BB with 15 18inch guns.

Image
The BB1917 design, basically a Colorado with a fifth turret.

Image
The Japanese No. 13 with 8 18inch guns.

So, these may yet make it into WPO, but Definately not for the first release (which is this week).
Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.
User avatar
Stwa
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:05 am

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by Stwa »

Nice pics, but I thought I would include the 21 Sodak BB-49. It were, just was not finished. 12 - 16" guns were planned for this ships of this class.

Image
Attachments
SDAKOTA21.jpg
SDAKOTA21.jpg (55.65 KiB) Viewed 519 times
User avatar
Tankerace
Posts: 5408
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 12:23 pm
Location: Stillwater, OK, United States

RE: Never Never Weres

Post by Tankerace »

She (Like Tosas, Amagis, Kiies, G3s, and last three Hoods are already in the game).

The South Dakotas come in 2 flavors. In all but the "Super Dreadnought" scenarios they have 12 16inch guns, in the Super Dreadnought the first three have 12 16inch, the last three eight 18inch.

The pics above were ships I may add, not that are already in.
Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.
Post Reply

Return to “War Plan Orange: Dreadnoughts in the Pacific 1922 - 1930”