GGWaW and HOI 2

[Loop25]

I looked through forum topics and found one big difference between these two games - diplomacy. Any others? And how much similar are they? (if you play both of them and can compare).

[jpinard]

Totally, totally different games. Not even comparable really. This is like Axis and Allies to the nth degree. HOI2 is like... well something different. Personally I don't think diplomacy fits this game and it's better without it.

[Marc von Martial]

Both have a WW2 plot, that´s about it [;)]

[Hanal]

HOI2=real/continuous time gameplay
WaW=turn based

HOI2=diplomacy which can result in many ahistorical situations
WaW= limited Diplomatic situations involving frozen zones and declarations of war but modeled within the historical framework of WWII

HOI2=extensive research trees and manufacturing which fits the complexity of the game
WaW= streamlined research and manufacturing system which fits the ease of play of the game

HOI2=leaders are included
WaW=leaders are not included

HOI2=an abstract and at times confusing combat results system
WaW=an easy to understand combat results system

Now I am not looking to stir up a debate about which game is better...I play both, but because I am a turn based type of guy, I find WaW more enjoyable, especially for longer gaming sessions...I commit less gaming session time to HOI2 because it starts to become too much like work when you stay with it too long....in fact, since I cannot sneak a turn or two of WaW at my job because my notebook cannot handle it, I play some HOI2 because it is a perfect game to sneak a 15 minute session here and there....had I been able to play WaW at work, I would be unemployed by now!....[:D]

[Paul Vebber]

HOI2 = 10s to 100s of hours to finish
WaW = 1 evening (2-5 hours to finish)

That is a big one for me. A game you can actually finish playing in a reasonable amount of time!

[Hanal]

Good catch Paul as that is a biggie!

[dobeln]

Well, you can get reasonable session length in HOI II by playing a semi-minor (I especially enjoy going on ahistorical romps, like Argentina cutting through South America like butter.)

Still, I do enjoy WaW more by leaps and bounds, even though I don't consider HOI II a bad game. A clunky, often frustrating game it is though. (Especially Diplomacy, and the insistance on modelling political divisions, with separate AI:s for Australia, Bhutan, Canada, and so on...) I hear a patch is coming though, and I expect it to take care of many of the issues I have with the game.

[CommC]

The key thing for me is accuracy of the model: movement, combat, political

Although HOI II is pretty good in these, I think WAW has the better combat and movement model, while the political model is good enough in both.

[Franky513]

ORIGINAL: J P Falcon

HOI2=real/continuous time gameplay
WaW=turn based

That's why I prefer WaW.

Ciao Frank

[Tankerace]

ORIGINAL: Paul Vebber

HOI2 = 10s to 100s of hours to finish
WaW = 1 evening (2-5 hours to finish)

That is a big one for me. A game you can actually finish playing in a reasonable amount of time!

No offense, but that is a plus to HOI for me. I tend to not like games I can beat in an evening. I like games I can invest a week, a month, or (WitP) a year in.

That said, I have neither game, only the first HoI.

[Graymane]

I'm a long time Paradox player (since EU 1) and found this game via a post on the HOI 2 forums Been playing both for a few days. The games aren't really comparable, they are so different. Basically, Paradox games, including HOI and HOI 2, are generally more complex overall than similar genre games (note I said more complex, not more challenging or harder). HOI is far more detailed on some levels and far less detailed on others. There really isn't much to compare except to try them both and decide for yourself. The best way to do that without buying is to read some AARs for both games and decide then.

Also, remember that just because a game has a feature, doesn't always mean it works the way you think it does (like diplomacy)

[Wilhammer]

I would of preferred monthly turns in WaW.

[SeaMonkey]

Since it hasn't been mentioned in this thread, the big one for me is PBEM feature for WaW, no such animal for HoI. Eventually any AI will be lacking, and there exists the need to continue against the diabolical human component, as IRL, a much better simulation of the actual mechanics of the era. Personally, time will never be available for TCP/IP session, much to many interests and the demands from those "Diabolicals" for guidance means continuous interruptions. So all Hail the ... PBEM feature.

[Wilhammer]

You should see the ebgames.com reviews of this title - one idjit gave it one star for NOT having TCP/IP play.

I bet he did not even try it, and is a card holding member of the 'twitch' crowd of younguns without a clue.

[hickmanj]

Seamonkey,

Have you actually beaten the AI on anything over normal - especially as the Axis?

If so, my hat is off to you.

I have played 5 games so far and was expecting to be winning by now The AI just handed Germany it's arse again.

Just curious

[SeaMonkey]

hickmanj,

Have not even gotten home to open the game my wife picked up at EB, but won't be long now. I was making a generalized statement regarding the many wargaming AIs I have been exposed to. After awhile they don't cut it and I'm not expecting anything differently with WaW. Certain AI patterns become obvious after extended gameplay that us humans can readily identify and counter pretty efficiently. Abstract thinking is not a strong suit for artificial intelligence, at least the ones that have been invented so far, so the natural inclination is to pursue an opponent with the same ability of abstract thought as oneself.

[BrianfromSeattle]

i dunno...maybe it's just me...maybe i'm old...

Truth to tell I was sold totally on Grisby's War in Russia (the first version), and in fact, without listing, everything since, he's invented (War in the Pacific though, the first version was too much for me).

I bought HOI. i NEEDED a World War 2 game. I bought HOI2. To me, a turn based kind of guy, I didn't get it, the joy of that game that must surely be there.

Maybe it's the haste of things....i could spend five hours on a game in a night then, now i'm lucky with one.

This, to me, is the game. The one I've been waiting for. For me, there is no contest, and i'm still trying to figure it out, but it's fine, so very fine.

i can get my fix in an hour (hey wargames are far better than drugs - i'm too old for them too), and smile as i sleep.

There is no contest. It's deep, but once You know it, easy, and complex.

Love it.

so much for the flames on when's it gonna be here!

which is a sign of a good game.

[dobeln]

Yes - this game is pure wargaming crack.

[Dalwin]

HOI2 is highly complex and in some areas is not intuitive which means a fairly steep learning curve.

The complexity and flexibility are both the game's greatest strengths and at the same time its weaknesses. The AI cannot handle the complexity as well as a human. Even at higher difficulty settings, I find it hard to lose at HOI2 regardless of which side I am playing.

However, like most Paradox titles, patches continue to refine and tweak the game. The big overhaul of the AI has not been released yet. This will hopefully make the game a better challenge.

[Grotius]

I like the detail of HOI2, but I prefer the turn-based style of GGWaW. To be honest, for me the "dream game" would be a global-WW2 game with GGWaW's turn-based styole and HOI2 (or WITP's) detail.