Unsupplied Panzers rampage?

[Delphinium]

Playing Russia vs. Germans with default settings, I thought I'd pulled off a massive coup as I trapped the 7 German Panzer armies and the 3 aircraft units with them two provinces away from nearest German unit and supply route.
They make one attack in Winter, but not towards resupply and I quietly congratulate myself for my genius[:)]

Spring however sees a different story as the "Death Star" Panzer Armee proceeds to rampage around Mother Russia and help punch back towrads supply AND strike deeper into Russia too??

Do I need Advanced supply on?

The thought of 7 Panzer Corps (or equivalent) surviving 6 months cut of several HUNDRED miles from supply sources is a farce. I may as well play Axis & Allies to get that effect [&:][&:][&:]

Russia now struggled to continue as the Panzers rampaged around the interior damaging supplies and it was almost impossible to pin them down as strategic movement went to pot. It was I-GO-U-GO chaos at its very worst with revolving doors etc. I'n very tempted to uninstall the software, or would Advanced Supply stop this lunacy?

Hopefully....

[dobeln]

Without advanced supply they can move as they please.

[Delphinium]

I think I'm going to have to play with Advanced Supply then. Normal supply rules are crazy....

[ratprince]

Even with advanced supply, this scenario is quite possible.

Supply trucks can move once space without rail like all other units. You could conceivable stack "TONS" of supply with an army group and just keep plodding around hauling the supply with you to protect it. Now the tanks would not be able to use their 2 space movement as this would leave the supply behind, but it is possible nonetheless....

I tried this scenario you discuss. I had 25 or so german units march toward stalingrad last campaign. I plopped about eighty supply with them and blasted straight toward the city leaving my main line behind. I made it to stalingrad with like 9 supply left and stopped there. Since you only need one supply to defend, I could hold the city for over two years with the supply I had left. Even if I did run out, one bomber can transport 5 supply, so Voila! an island fortress.

later

Mike

[Mr.Frag]

Don't forget air supply. [;)]

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: mike mcmann

Even with advanced supply, this scenario is quite possible.

Supply trucks can move once space without rail like all other units. You could conceivable stack "TONS" of supply with an army group and just keep plodding around hauling the supply with you to protect it. Now the tanks would not be able to use their 2 space movement as this would leave the supply behind, but it is possible nonetheless....

I tried this scenario you discuss. I had 25 or so german units march toward stalingrad last campaign. I plopped about eighty supply with them and blasted straight toward the city leaving my main line behind. I made it to stalingrad with like 9 supply left and stopped there. Since you only need one supply to defend, I could hold the city for over two years with the supply I had left. Even if I did run out, one bomber can transport 5 supply, so Voila! an island fortress.

What you described is not an "island frotress", it's German player being extrenmely stupid. Not only he would lose his 6th armee, but also some precious supply on top of that.

To isolate and kill German forces there, it's obvious Soviets must muster stronger forces. If Soviets can't concentrate their force to crush the pocket, then the whole point about "island fortress" is moot anyway. But if Soviets concetrate their forces to crush the pocket, they will not only kill the army, but also valuable supplies on top of that.

If Soviets can't get enough forces to crush the pocket, then why did the Germans form the "island" anyway? [:D][:D]

Oleg

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Delphinium

Playing Russia vs. Germans with default settings, I thought I'd pulled off a massive coup as I trapped the 7 German Panzer armies and the 3 aircraft units with them two provinces away from nearest German unit and supply route.
They make one attack in Winter, but not towards resupply and I quietly congratulate myself for my genius[:)]

Spring however sees a different story as the "Death Star" Panzer Armee proceeds to rampage around Mother Russia and help punch back towrads supply AND strike deeper into Russia too??

Do I need Advanced supply on?

The thought of 7 Panzer Corps (or equivalent) surviving 6 months cut of several HUNDRED miles from supply sources is a farce. I may as well play Axis & Allies to get that effect [&:][&:][&:]

Russia now struggled to continue as the Panzers rampaged around the interior damaging supplies and it was almost impossible to pin them down as strategic movement went to pot. It was I-GO-U-GO chaos at its very worst with revolving doors etc. I'n very tempted to uninstall the software, or would Advanced Supply stop this lunacy?

Hopefully....

If you play with "simple supply" rules all supply points are kept in the "bucket", and don't have to be transported to isolated islands. Isolated army may suck supply from the supply bucket just like any other army on the map.

It is not "lunacy", and you do not need to uninstall the software. Just play with the advanced supply rules. Simple supply rules are there for the n00bz [:D]

O.

[ratprince]

Oleg;

Let's not be rude now! I was that very German player!

The point was it is entirely possible to send a force rampaging across russia with supply in tow. Wehter or not the soviets can "crush" it, is a moot point. And actually, I found it totally screws the AI up! The yank all sorts of troops from the front lines to go after this moving bubble of forces and my follow up forces simply step into the vacated front.

One measily little supply can keep the entire 6th Armee going strong on the defense, plus some airlifted replacements and like I said, VOILA! an Island Fortress at Stalingrad!

Later

Mike

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: mike mcmann

Let's not be rude now! I was that very German player!

Sorry [:D] BTW have you tried this strategy vs. human player on only vs. AI?

O.

[ratprince]

hehe.... no worries [;)]

I have yet to face a human. So, no.

I have played a campaign as every nation and as "all" nations of a side. (been on spring break this week!)

Each time I play as Germany, I can without fail (so far) cause them all sorts of havoc by doing this very thing. The important thing to remember is that only one supply is required to defend. So Goering CAN airlift enough supplies to Stalingrad....heck, one bomber can carry enough for over a year of defense! Use some more bombers to bring in some infantry reinforcements and like I said...Island fortress in Russia..... AI doesnt like!

Later Oleg![:'(]

Prof. Mike

[Becket]

Oleg's point is that a human player would take advantage of an encircled army and crush it. Encirclement = total loss of all units if you lose the battle. In other words, what would normally be a retreat result, with units escaping and damaged units going to the factories for repair, turns into a military disaster, with all units destroyed. [:)]

[Warfare1]

Just my opinion:

I think this supply loophole playing against the AI should be fixed.

Just relying on PBEM/human opponents is not the answer.

[Becket]

It's not a "loophole" to move supply with your army.

Sounds like the AI isn't able to put a critical mass of units to kill his area but that doesn't really mean much til we know more about how the games turn out using this "strategy" (I still agree with Oleg, leaving 80 supply and a large force stuck in the middle of the SU is not something the Germans can afford).

I don't think the sky is falling yet. [:)]

[Mr.Frag]

It's not a "loophole" to move supply with your army.

Agreed completely, it's not only not a loophole, one could go so far as to call it common sense against exactly that situation. Armys move on their stomachs [;)]

[Warfare1]

Well, I may be a bit slow sometimes... [:D]

But if the human player can advance with supply as has been described in this thread, and if the AI cannot react to this move, then it is a loophole in the AI's defenses.

Perhaps more testing on this issue may be needed...

[IDrinkBeer]

But if the human player can advance with supply as has been described in this thread, and if the AI cannot react to this move, then it is a loophole in the AI's defenses.

Bingo!! Give that man a cigar!!

Hardly anything to uninstall the game over....

[ratprince]

hehe... [:'(]

I said it "screws with the AI", but doesnt make them impotent!

They usually recover and end up squashing the stack, but by then I have blasted into the interior. It is kind'a diversionary plunge to distract them from the front line factories and resources.

It has worked so far against the AI, but yet to try it against a human. The one itsy, bitsy problem I have is that a VAST army (any number of units) can be supplied on the defense with one supply point. Seems a "bit" extreme....but oh well....guess it works...

later!

Mike

[paullus99]

The one supply for defense prevents a player from sending in his units one at a time in the attack to use up the defenders supplies, then crush the rest of the stack when its unsupplied.

[Delphinium]

Paullus - then limit supply consumption based on the size of attack, if attacked by one unit, max. one supply point used & so on. In addition, supply should go just to keep the units alive at all.

[paullus99]

But, you run into the same problem. If I see that there is only 2 supply in a particular area I want to attack, I only need to send in 2 militia units (one at a time) to burn that defenders' supply, then attack with my true offensive force.

The rules as they are, prevent a lot of gamey tactics & make for a much more interesting game.