Matrix: Last hope for Strategy gaming

[sol_invictus]

We've all seen the emerging pattern in the gaming industry with big concerns such as EA buying up smaller developers and immediately homogenizing any output as some RTS/FPS piece of crap. The one exception for me was CA and its Total War series. These were really innovative games that were fun to play. I was distressed when I heard that SEGA had bought CA but was prepared to give them a chance to see what came out of this unholy union.

Unfortunately, CA has pre-emptively decided to commit suicide by stubbornly refusing to admit to a game breaking bug, thus obviating the need to fix it. I refer to the save game bug where the AI is completely reset on reload which causes the AI to lift all sieges and basicly starts from scratch with any strategic planning.

I love RTW and was willing to stick with CA until the expansion, but unless this issue is addressed in a patch or in the expansion I will sadly be forced to close the chapter on TW series.

Fortunately, Matrix seems poised to take over the mantle of king of stategy gaming with its excellent slate of released or soon to be released titles. I think for the niche segment of the gaming market that strategy gaming occupies, Matrix has hit on an excellent business model as acting as a coordinator/clearinghouse for small independent game creators. Shrapnel and a few others are also pursuing this strategy, but Matrix has such a large lead on them, I don't see much serious competition anytime soon. To put it simply; if it wasn't for Matrix, I think I could sadly but safely give up on computer gaming in the coming year.[&o]

[RBWhite]

Arvinvald


You have nailed the hit on the head. I gave up on almost all of the gaming worlds publishers years ago.

My niche has been flight, chopper, tank, naval surface, sub sims & of coarse Steel Panthers WAW. I'm looking at a few other Matrix Games, I like being able study games before I buy.


Rick White

[Warfare1]

I agree about Matrix carrying the mantle of both wargaming and strategy games.

They should get extra praise for releasing their promised patch for UV (v2.41).

On another note:

Here is the full text of CA's explanation of the RTW save game bug below. Please read carefully the paragraph I placed in bold. We have now truly entered the world of "1984" and have experienced "GAMESPEAK". That the developers could utter such nonsense speaks volumes on what they think about the intelligence of gamers.

LoadGame Issue

Hi Guys

I had had a long talk with the developers and what you are about to read is considered as our definitive view on the matter. Some of you are not going to be happy with it and some are. But we will close this thread off in the main R:TW board as I don't think we are going to achieve any more than we have already. Before some of you start accusing us of ripping you off and not caring about the community a lot of time has been spent here looking in to this matter and this is the conclusion we have arrived at. However, we will take all of your comments and feedback into consideration with regards to other games in the TW series and any expansions. All of your comments were read (as always). So...


There's been good sense - and some nonsense - posted here about a reload bug that is supposed to be a gamebreaker for RTW. Supposedly, as soon as a saved game is loaded *all* existing sieges are lifted by the AI, and this spoils the game for a particularly vocal sub-set of players. In a few cases (as a proportion of the whole number of games being played) all sieges will be lifted.

However, to describe this as a gamebreaker is a little unfair, and a misunderstanding of the game's AI. What's actually happening is more subtle than the doomsayers would have you believe. The AI does a regular reasssement about the best use for its forces. If one or more armies are engaged in a siege and it decides that there is a higher priority usage for them elsewhere it will lift the siege and use them somewhere else. The player might not understand why this is happening, but often the reasons for the AI acting this way may be covered by the fog of war - a Gallic siege might have to be lifted because the Gauls have suddenly come under attack by the Britons, for example, but the player can't 'see' this happening.

There are also another reasons to lift a siege. It simply doesn't have to be carried to a conclusion to be damaging. Trade is halted and the happiness of a beseiged settlement also suffers. Building and training in the settlement are halted. The province may be devastated by the army's presence. The enemy's attention is concentrated on the besieged settlement, and he/it may weaken a position elsewhere in a relief action.

All of this explains why the AI is quite prepared to lift sieges and move armies after a couple of turns spent on the task, even when a save game hasn't been loaded. It simply has better things to do with them after it has done one of its periodic reassessments of its position.

It so happens that when a saved game is loaded, the AI does a reassessment of its position, decides what is relevant, and then acts. This doesn't mean that the game is broken, merely that the AI is doing its job at that moment. And this is where the statistical bit comes in. Like many strategy games RTW has a probabalistic element to the outcome of events. There is a tendency for events in the game to unfold in the same way, given the same initial starting conditions, but there are no guarantees that this will happen. There will - over the hundreds of thousands of games that are played - be some occasions when the AI decides to lift its sieges. There will also be times when the AI does not consider that lifting a siege is acceptable. It's also worth pointing out that - because the game has now been played many, many, many times, that events such as the lifting of all sieges have now appeared at one extreme of the conceptual bell curve of probable outcomes. There are now so many games being played by so many players that this does happen, but statistically that's almost what you'd expect; that 'many' is a small proportion of the total number of games being played.

It's also a consequence of getting the AI to look after its interests during play. After all, many players review their overall position when reloading a game, send armies to new destinations, decide that a siege isn't worth pursuing, or simply reassign attack priorities in the light of their strategic reassessment. The decision was made that this was a reasonable and sensible thing for the AI to do as well: the loading of a game seemed like a good point to get the AI to sit back and go "hmmm... what's happening?... maybe those guys should be doing something more useful..."

[RBWhite]

Thanks Warfare

I didn't know I was that stupid

I think you have shown us the perfect example of

LOL!!!

Rick White

[wodin]

There are more than just Matrix. ALso Matrix is mainly a producer.

You have HPS, Shrapnel,Shwerpunkt,Battlefront and some smaller indy developers like Mnemonic.

Matrix is a good collecion of different developers. However these developers would still be around even if Matrix was nt here. Though I'm sure MAtrix is a big help.

What I'm trying to say is that wargaming is ver much alive and well. Check out the wargamer article on how many wargames are being developed. I coutn about 27 different developers. And about 68 wargames either being developed or in some state of being. Say 18 never see the light of day thats still 50 wargames due out.

[Warfare1]

ORIGINAL: RBWhite

Thanks Warfare

I didn't know I was that stupid

I think you have shown us the perfect example of

LOL!!!

Rick White

Thanks for your contribution.

I posted that info because there are many people who have not seen CA's explanation, and there are those who may not have read the entire thing.

[EDITED by Warfare1 to remove comments]

[Warfare1]

[EDITED by Warfare1 to remove comments made through a misunderstanding]

[String]

I, String, shall hereby commit heresy and suggest that Paradox Interactive has also produced and will continue to produce good, if not excellent strategy games [:D]

Ofcourse i know that they have also produced some rather dissapointing games

[RBWhite]

I quess someone showing support & agreement with the post you created is something you may not find exceptable?

I simply concered with your statement about how some publishers think that gamers are stupid.

I guess I also failed to view that you were that high brow to be ofended with a little humor combined with a well done.

I actually enjoyed your post

My apologies

Like a good tight end might say to his defensive lineman thanks for the block.

Rick White

[Warfare1]

ORIGINAL: RBWhite

I quess someone showing support & agreement with the post you created is something you may not find exceptable?

I simply concered with your statement about how some publishers think that gamers are stupid.

I guess I also failed to view that you were that high brow to be ofended with a little humor combined with a well done.

I actually enjoyed your post

My apologies

Like a good tight end might say to his defensive lineman thanks for the block.

Rick White

I'm glad I unblocked you to read your post.

I mistook your comments in your post as being directed at me. You state that you actually agree with me, and those comments were directed at CA.

Now that you have clarified this, it is I who now owes you an apology.

You are unblocked and I will edit my posts above accordingly.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[RBWhite]

No problem.

It happens

Let just keep our Gaming niche going strong.



Rick White

[Warfare1]

ORIGINAL: RBWhite

No problem.

It happens

Let just keep our Gaming niche going strong.



Rick White

Agreed [:)]

[RBWhite]

Hi wodin

I try to check in on all the War Gaming sites including the ones you have listed to see what going on and what will be coming along. The one I missed was Dangerous Waters, must have been a sleep at the keyboard, I've ordered that and I'm waiting too see when Cold Water Fleet by Mnemonic will be shaping up.

I saw a list the other day provided by my cable provider concerning PC games in general. The list covered what was already out and will be coming available and the list was impressive with alot of war related games, so I guess in general PC gaming is holding it's own.

Like you said there are other producers other than Matrix, so I'm very sure your right the developers would certainly find a publisher to market their products. Whats the old sailor's saying, "any port in the storm".

But like I said about Matrix Games you can sit and read anything and everthing about their games, good or bad in the Matrix forums and base your purchases accordingly.

Enjoy

Rick White

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: Arinvald
Fortunately, Matrix seems poised to take over the mantle of king of stategy gaming with its excellent slate of released or soon to be released titles.

Poised? Matrix already took over with the release of Uncommon Valour. Ground breaking wargaming.

UV, together with W.I.T.P. Korsun Pocket and B.I.N and Airborne Assault are my current crop.

If I were “stuck” with these games I would still be in wargaming heaven.

As to the future, I look forward to computer Rise and Decline of the Third Reich, and the next game in the Airborne Assault series and SSG’s next game, Battles In Italy.

All to be published by Matrix [8D]

[sol_invictus]

String, I absolutely loved EU and EU2, but I feel that Paradox is riding that horse to death. It was all down hill after EU2, imo.

Joe98, yeah, if I had to, I could just about be happy with only games published by Matrix. There's still a few quality independents left, but very few and far between.

[Zap]

There are more than just Matrix. ALso Matrix is mainly a producer

Wodin, you seem to keep us all informed on what,s up out there. Thank you for that. I,ve been trying to get an idea on just how many strategy gamers might be out there. What is the health of the strategy game market?
I wonder where we could find out numbers. And then make comparisons with other wargame markets, RTS/ect.
No one seems to want to reveal that (if there are some figures) for whatever reason.
The only number I know is 15,000 or so people are regestered on the matrix forums.

[DamoclesX]

Ive been very impressed with matrix, and their products.

My current home.

[Zap]

My new home.

I see you have made 700+ posts. Your new home?

[ravinhood]

I, String, shall hereby commit heresy and suggest that Paradox Interactive has also produced and will continue to produce good, if not excellent strategy games

Cough, gag, choke, upchuck!

I only liked one game in their series and that was EU II and it only after what 15 patches now? hehe

[Pippin]

If not excellent, hmm. Now I would HATE to see what he considers a POOR game to be