"UNKNOWN" Arrival location

[ADavidB]

PzB has captured Karachi, and now all ships, planes and troops that were scheduled to arrive at Karachi are listed as arriving at "Unknown".

Okay Mike Woods, you've got a bit of programming to do here...

Dave Baranyi

[Mr.Frag]

Thats normal ... they can't enter until you take it back.

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Thats normal ... they can't enter until you take it back.

Give me a break Frag, that's one of the worst answers that you've ever given. Are you totally giving up on any attempt to model some semblence of reality here.

Dave Baranyi

[Gen.Hoepner]

PzB knew that perfectly. That's why he did go for India. otherwise it would have been a waste of time and resources.
Well...the answer won't come from Mike wood i guess....but probably from those nice guys of the CHS mod. They have modelled another British base that simultates the dominions in the middle east. Am i right?

[Mr.Frag]

What exactly did you expect? That loosing Karachi would have no impact?

It's about on par as Japan loosing Osaka or the USA loosing San Francisco. You will still get all your other ships and as soon as you retake the port they'll come back. Loosing the map edge pretty much takes the Brits out of the war. There is no Cairo to pull back to.

Effectively the game is telling you that you have caused the Brits so many losses that they have withdrawn from the theater until conditions improve. Britain had a pretty extreme manpower limitation. CHS while doing a little trick to make a more remote base does not really answer the fundimental issue at hand. Would Britain be able to continue to throw troops into the far east when really they needed to deal with more pressing matters back home?

[Andy Mac]

Seperate question would all those troops have actually surrendered or just kept retreating......actually in the case of the Indian Army not an easy question to answer

But dont worry Dave thats why a garrison will be required in India for the rest of the war.

My understanding is if you take either Bombay or Karachi all units and ships that should have arrived arrive in a lump.

So retake Bombay say in late 43 and you get 4 or 5 Indian Divisions arriving immediately and if itsa after the Indian squad upgrade I think (although im not clear on this one) they arrive with upgraded squads as well as all bomber and fighter sqns.

PZB has to garrison India he cannot just abandon it

[Andy Mac]

One other thing India has now fallen so 4th 5th 8th and 10th Indian Divisions plus the Indian Armoured Div in the ME are suddenly homeless given the priority of the oil fields and the German Spearheads heading for the caucusus at this time I dont for a second think that the few forces available to the UK could at this time be diverted to India the strength just does not exist.

All the training camps that were going to raise 25th / 3rd / 19th Indian Divs etc have been captured.

Arguably the WA and EA divisons could be sent to Aus but actually now tyhe whole East Africa is actually in play again so those forces that historically were deployed to India are actually required to guard against a Japanese thrust at East Africa.

[Knavey]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

One other thing India has now fallen so 4th 5th 8th and 10th Indian Divisions plus the Indian Armoured Div in the ME are suddenly homeless given the priority of the oil fields and the German Spearheads heading for the caucusus at this time I dont for a second think that the few forces available to the UK could at this time be diverted to India the strength just does not exist.

All the training camps that were going to raise 25th / 3rd / 19th Indian Divs etc have been captured.

Arguably the WA and EA divisons could be sent to Aus but actually now tyhe whole East Africa is actually in play again so those forces that historically were deployed to India are actually required to guard against a Japanese thrust at East Africa.

What would be in East Africa that the Japanese would want?

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

What exactly did you expect? That loosing Karachi would have no impact?

It's about on par as Japan loosing Osaka or the USA loosing San Francisco. You will still get all your other ships and as soon as you retake the port they'll come back. Loosing the map edge pretty much takes the Brits out of the war. There is no Cairo to pull back to.

Effectively the game is telling you that you have caused the Brits so many losses that they have withdrawn from the theater until conditions improve. Britain had a pretty extreme manpower limitation. CHS while doing a little trick to make a more remote base does not really answer the fundimental issue at hand. Would Britain be able to continue to throw troops into the far east when really they needed to deal with more pressing matters back home?

That's pure BS Frag. It's garbage programming and it's been garbage programming since Pacwar days. There are lots of US forces that are supposed to arrive at India. They won't arrive anywhere now either.

Frag, I'd love to know who you really are and what company you work for, so I could be certain that my company never used your services - you have an unjustifiably arrogant attitude and are a bad respresentative for Matrix.

Dave Baranyi

[Mr.Frag]

What would be in East Africa that the Japanese would want?

Nothing, but cutting off the feed of stuff hurting the Germans is certainly a worthy cause. At a global level, it would make Germany more effective against Russia which in turn would weaken Russia for when Japan goes to war. It would be nice to have some off map effects, but thats for WitP III [:D]

[Andy Mac]

Bombing strips in Betty range of Gulf ?

Flank and cut off tankers taking fuel from ME to Australia and UK

Pay off from the Germans cut the artery keeping the Wester Allies in Fuel and ill give you the Italian Navy (J/K)

[Bodhi]

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

That's pure BS Frag. It's garbage programming and it's been garbage programming since Pacwar days. There are lots of US forces that are supposed to arrive at India. They won't arrive anywhere now either.

Dave Baranyi

Try reading section 15.5 (Arrivals) in the manual, it explains everything clearly.[;)]

I can see you're peeved at loosing Karachi, but attacking a beta tester on programming over what is actually a game design issue seems a bit harsh.[:D]

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: Bodhi

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

That's pure BS Frag. It's garbage programming and it's been garbage programming since Pacwar days. There are lots of US forces that are supposed to arrive at India. They won't arrive anywhere now either.

Dave Baranyi

Try reading section 15.5 (Arrivals) in the manual, it explains everything clearly.[;)]

I can see you're peeved at loosing Karachi, but attacking a beta tester on programming over what is actually a game design issue seems a bit harsh.[:D]

Frag is "representing the Company" here and he does a consistantly arrogant job of it. He rationalizes unsupportable design and programming decisions.

There is nothing here that tells me that I should buy any more 2x3 games. And by having Frag "represent the company" Matrix is sending me a message that I shouldn't buy more games from them either. Attitude is everything, and I don't like the attitude I see from 2x3, Matrix and their reps.

Remember, I'm a paying customer. I can and will vote with my wallet.

Dave Baranyi

[pad152]

Hey

Some of us like the fact that Japan can knock Britian out of the pacific![;)]

[pad152]

attitude is everything, and I don't like the attitude I see from 2x3, Matrix and their reps.

Now if you want some attitude, just go to the Battlefront fourm and start posting in the combat mission fourms[:D]

[Bodhi]

Well, you may take issue with Frag's tone, but at least he tries to present what he believes is the intent of the game design. As the actual game designers are notable by their absence, Frag and the other beta testers, together with the odd post from Mike Wood, are all we customers have got.

[DrewMatrix]

Well, I guess they could extend the map further east. Say to London. Then after you lose London you can ask the map be extended further north. Maybe to Chester. Then to Portree, perhaps. If you lose Portree and Skye you can ask the programmers to include a secret unassailable base under a volcano.

Or you could take the position that, rather than have the programmers allow you to lose everything on the map and continue to fight unhampered, you need to defend something.

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: pad152

Hey

Some of us like the fact that Japan can knock Britian out of the pacific![;)]

I see your smiley, and I have no problem with the game allowing a good player like PzB to capture India. What I have a problem with is the thoughtless programming that allows:

1 - Troops, ships and planes to "magically" appear in Karachi and be trapped there, yet they can't be "magically" removed.

2 - US Forces that went to India to fight in the Asian front "vanish" from the game when in reality they would have been redeployed elsewhere in the Pacific.

And please don't give me the bit that the Allied player can do the same thing in Osaka. The way that this game has been written, as Pry so clearly writes, "for play balance", there is no Allied player who will ever capture Osaka in a PBEM game.

Dave Baranyi

[siRkid]

This is why I dropped from the fourm and became a lurker.[:(]

[Tankerace]

Its called balance. If Japan couldn't knock any power out of the war, then what would be the point? Its not bad programming, it was game design.

I like it, and Im glad they did it. After all, what is the point of playing as Japan if you can't knock people out of the war? The fact is, you got beaten in India. Not saying you are a bad player, but why attack the programmer or the reps for your loss? You mention the CHS team. Well, if the Japanese player tries it, he can take all the new bases, and you'll be in the same predicament.

I have used the rule to good extent in War Plan Orange. If you take Shanghai early on, the US gunboats built there never see the light of day.

Now, early versions of the rule were stupid, in that Dutch ships were scheduled to arrive in the DEI, and if the Japanese player took it early, then the Dutch ships arriving there were stuck in limbo.

However, if units can't arrive in Karachi, where would you ahve them land? Not the US, those troops were earmarked for India. Not Australia, same reason as above. And, like Pad says, if you managed to lose your biggest embarkation port, then Britain isn't going to go back until it has a lot of stuff. To stick small individual units into another Indian city would be suicidal. The game models this. You take Karachi back, and you get everything that was going to arrive. It represents them coming back in force.

I mean really, come on. If India was being over run, would Britain really land more base forces? Don't think so.