Snipers

Gavris Narcis · Post by **Gavris Narcis** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 6:37 pm

Did the snipers have penetration capabilities versus unarmored vehicles ? Because continuosly I receive the message ''no effect'' when hitting.

Leo.

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 7:23 pm

Given such a small round I would expect that even though there might be pentration, that nothing signifigant was struck. The main question would be when targeting a truck, for example, would be if he were targeting a man or the vehicle? In RL I would assume it would be a man, but the game seems to operate on the vehicle basis.

Khan7 · Post by **Khan7** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 2:39 am

Hmm, I have heard of snipers taking out HT drivers in CC.. tended to annoy the player quite a bit because you can't just hop another guy in there to take the wheel..

But for penetration? With WW2-era snipers, really no. But a large purpose of modern .50cal sniper rifles is anti-material, taking out radar dishes, fuel tanks, and the like.

So there u are.

john g · Post by **john g** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 4:54 am

Originally posted by Khan7:
Hmm, I have heard of snipers taking out HT drivers in CC.. tended to annoy the player quite a bit because you can't just hop another guy in there to take the wheel..

But for penetration? With WW2-era snipers, really no. But a large purpose of modern .50cal sniper rifles is anti-material, taking out radar dishes, fuel tanks, and the like.

So there u are.

More anti-Material rifles are tending towards 20mm now. Compare them with the various AT-rifles of the early WWII period. The uses of the .50 cal rifles are more in the anti-personnel line. They work great for taking out mg crews, vehicle drivers etc.

During WWII at-rifle crews seemed to have short lifespans, so no tales of ace marksmen have come along. Just imagine a SPWAW sniper armed with a ptrd, able to take out halftracks with a single shot. The USSR players would be buying them instead of the other "cost effective" infantry they buy now.
thanks, John.

panda124c · Post by **panda124c** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 5:22 pm

Originally posted by john g:

More anti-Material rifles are tending towards 20mm now. Compare them with the various AT-rifles of the early WWII period. The uses of the .50 cal rifles are more in the anti-personnel line. They work great for taking out mg crews, vehicle drivers etc.

During WWII at-rifle crews seemed to have short lifespans, so no tales of ace marksmen have come along. Just imagine a SPWAW sniper armed with a ptrd, able to take out halftracks with a single shot. The USSR players would be buying them instead of the other "cost effective" infantry they buy now.
thanks, John.

You have have not run into the Russian ATR's, range 18, this is the Russian 20mm ATR. Nasty, luckly they are not useful against infantry, or MGs. Hate them, hate them, hate them.

Unless, of course, I'm the Russians.

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 7:41 pm

Originally posted by pbear:
You have have not run into the Russian ATR's, range 18, this is the Russian 20mm ATR. Nasty, luckly they are not useful against infantry, or MGs. Hate them, hate them, hate them. Unless, of course, I'm the Russians.

20mm?? Dang, I gotta study the Russian OOB harder. I didn't even know they had bigger ATR's than the PTRS and PTRD-41 beasts.

troopie · Post by **troopie** » Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:46 am

You could ping a tyre with a WW2 sniper rifle, or put a hole in the radiator, but not much else. You could put a hole in the canvas of a lorry or jeep, and slot the man inside. But knocking out a lorry, jeep or HT with a single shot is not on.

troopie

JTGEN · Post by **JTGEN** » Tue Aug 07, 2001 5:54 pm

Finland used some of the very accurate antitank rifles (the finnish Lahti-Saloranta if I remember correctly) as a sort of a sniper rifle in the continuation war when it was not good enough against the tanks. It was very good against lighter bunkers.

I think it was/is in finnish oob and when I played hypothetical Finland vs US it was very good against the half tracs

Jarkko · Post by **Jarkko** » Tue Aug 07, 2001 6:19 pm

Originally posted by JTGEN:
Finland used some of the very accurate antitank rifles (the finnish Lahti-Saloranta if I remember correctly) as a sort of a sniper rifle in the continuation war when it was not good enough against the tanks. It was very good against lighter bunkers.

I think it was/is in finnish oob and when I played hypothetical Finland vs US it was very good against the half tracs

It was 20mm Lahti AT-rifle, allso known as "L-39" ATR. Aimo Lahti was the its only designer. I think that you are probably mizing it with 7.62mm Lahti-Saloranta LMG ("7.62mm L-S LMG" in the game).

JTGEN · Post by **JTGEN** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 4:55 pm

Yeah Lahti and Saloranta designed the LMG. Allthough Lahti was behind so many Finnish weapons. I believe it is the 2men sniper team in Finnish oob(have not played since ver4.x) that is equiped with AT-rifle.

Jarkko · Post by **Jarkko** » Thu Aug 09, 2001 5:59 pm

Originally posted by JTGEN:
Yeah Lahti and Saloranta designed the LMG. Allthough Lahti was behind so many Finnish weapons. I believe it is the 2men sniper team in Finnish oob(have not played since ver4.x) that is equiped with AT-rifle.

Used to be, it was removed a long time ago (with ver 4.1?). I was doing Finnish oob at that time and got order to remove it. You can still make it for scenario however, as the scoped version of 20mm Lahti AT-rifle (there was a scope among equipment with the late version of Lahti ATR) is still among other weapons in Finnish oob. Hopefully we allso get some HE ammo to Finnish AT-infantry unit armed with Lahti ATR this time (it has none in ver 6.1 Finnish oob), as HE was frequently used with it.

Arralen · Post by **Arralen** » Fri Aug 10, 2001 1:53 am

Originally posted by Gavris Narcis:
Did the snipers have penetration capabilities versus unarmored vehicles ? Because continuosly I receive the message ''no effect'' when hitting.

Leo.

Yes, and no.

At first - snipers can kill non-armored or slightly armored (4..6mm) vehicles with one shot at 700m (been there, seen this, lost APC). This is not a function of penetration (which the sniper rifles don't have) but a 'special ability' for snipers (maybe at bit too much, but that's another issue), depending AFAIK on the HEkill value (please correct me if I'm wrong).

A 'no effect' message would suggest that the round effectivly penetrated according to the normal 'penetration rules', not the 'special ability', but didn't do enough damage to the vehicle to achieve any effect.
In that case it would be warhead (size) vs. survivability, and with warhead 1 against surv. 2..4 a kill is very much unlikely.

Maybe the 'front armor 4' found on all transport vehicles in v6.x makes a difference here, as the game engine uses AP shots against those and maybe AP penetration/kill rules as well ??

Arralen