How much research

[Espejo]

[:)] Can somebody give me rough estimate how much research the different world powers should do at the beginning at the game?

50% of production capacity or 5%? I have no clue.....

[artgrtr8u]

I expect there is a large variety of answers to this question, but here's my $.02.

I haven't played WA, Russia or China yet, but for the Axis powers it's more like 5-10% early in the game. You need too much supply and too many units to prepare for the Russia invasion as Germany or the Pearl Harbor/East Indies campaigns as Japan. Japan is definitely worse off than Germany. Once Japan picks up enough resources that all their factory points are active they can start picking up the research. For Germany, once they capture some of the Russian factories that can be used to produce supply they can start upping their research.

Ultimately it's really going to depend on the difficulty settings you use and the strategy you play.

[Glabro]

However, research is all-important, so you should endeavour to constantly research at least one unit´s attack and evasion if you´re a land power, or perhaps carrier air if you´re naval.

[carnifex]

After the war gets going for the Axis, most if not all of their available population will be spent repairing damaged units, leaving all those production points to be spent either as supply or research.

So, do as little research as possible early on, because you will be cranking out the little blue bottles like mad later.

[MButtazoni]

So, do as little research as possible early on, because you will be cranking out the little blue bottles like mad later

BUT be warned; the more units you have on the board the more the research costs. so late war research is expensive


i typically try for
GE: 33% units, 33% research, 33% supply
JA: 40% units, 40%supply 10% research

these are VERY approximate.

[Paul Vebber]

I find as teh Germans I'm ALWAYS needing supply, rarely losing becasue of research (early on) so in the early days I try to always build at least 12-15 supply - my latest is to try to get to a 32 inf, 12 tank, 12 arty, 7 flak, 4 para, 7 fighter, 5 medium and 7 heavy bomber total force by Su41. 12 U boats for the battle of the atlantic. I've found going "2 over a multiples of 5" is the sweet spot for getting 'round off roll' research breakthroughs, and maximizing my force.

The first thing that goes in the paras...sometimes I get them often i don't - they can be VERY handy in the SU getting surround attacks - Agaisn the AI I can usually use 2 per area to take two areas, then hammer a large stack with diasterous results. Well worth the 15 investment...

I only research U-boats EV and Torps, fighter range and air attack, and armor, hvy bomber and arty attack starting out. I have to "get lucky" on the round of rolls to get all of them by barbarossa, but almoast always 5 of the seven. I hold "one short" of breakthrough (usually 6) when I have "2 over" a multiple of five. usually in two turns you "get it". That is about 8 per turn for 5 turns on research.

[James Ward]

hold "one short" of breakthrough (usually 6) when I have "2 over" a multiple of five. usually in two turns you "get it". That is about 8 per turn for 5 turns on research.

What does this mean?

[Paul Vebber]

IT means that research costs an extra RP for each multiple of 5 units of that type you have deployed, or in production. The base is 5 so if you have 1 or 5 units it will show 6 as being required. IF you do not have an "exact multiple" of 5, then if you are 1 below teh requirement of having a ull multiple of 5, there is a chance proportional to the fraction (or something related to it) that will allow you to get a breakthrough with one less than the required number if you don;t have an "even multiple of 5" units.

If ima right gong 2 over a multipl of 7 means a 60% chance (1-2/5s - though the higher you get it may be a proportion of the total, not jst the difference...i don;t have teh manual in front of me) of getting a breakthrough with 6 in teh beaker instead of the 7 reuired for a full 2nd multiple of 5.

SO if you have no units - a breakthrough costs 5

If you have 1-5 units, it costs you 6 RPs, but if you have less than 5, there is an increasing chance the closer you at 0 that you will succeed with only 5. Similarly if you have 6-10 units deployed or in production, a breakthrough costs 7, but the closer you are to 6 than 10, the better the chance that 6 will do it for you. And so on, and so on.

SO I target 7 or 12 as a quantity of units typically for a quanity to get the largest force, with the cheapest research cost. I try to limit myself to 40 research in the 7 areas at about 6 per that anticipates a saving 2 points on "round off rolls" but I often do better.

even if it only saves me 3 or 4 points 15 or 20 supply can often be the difference between a sweeping operation and a piddling one...

[Barthheart]

Also don't forget that when you get over the "world standard" value of any attribute the cost of research goes up even more. Manual pg. 87. [X(]

[James Ward]

IT means that research costs an extra RP for each multiple of 5 units of that type you have deployed, or in production.

So basically you can get to the next level without the full investment?
Do you need to be within 1 of the level or could you be 2 from it, say you have 5/7 in the research area?
Is this stuff in the manual?
Man I have to print that thing out one day [:)]

[Paul Vebber]

And it builds up fast if you are trying to build the Bomb [X(]

I was talking about the "early game" - up to Barbarossa. i don;t think the Germans can afford to try to get anything int the "above standard world early, with the possible exception of getting a jump on U-boat Ev 4 and torp 4...

You have three main "avenues of reaserch" open to you early on - Inf, Arty, and armor land attack, the better to kill Rooskies with; Fighter range, air to air and hvy bomber evasion and land attack for the battle of Britain; and Uboat evasion an torp to prosecute the battle of the Atlantic and take down the RN a notch for Sea lion).

You can go whole hog on any one of them, do pretty well with two, or selective elements to alow you to exploit an advantage if offered. Agaisnt humans it pays to be unpredictable, Aaisnt the AI, you can pretty much figure out its tendencies after a while and my "standard pattern" is designed to do that across the three areas, but only where the advance is a "difference maker".

None of those, withthe exception of teh U-baot skillz will typically get you into teh "above standard" realm.

Once Barbarossa begins I take a bit of a "research holiday" to build up supplies and see what the Rooskies and WA are researching. Then I cue my effort to try to exploit an advantage - or close teh gap on one they are trying to open.

In general I try to get a head start on inf and arty evasion - they are your bread and butter in the end game. Once the retreat to teh "great redoubt" with a supply cche to defend and conduct limited offensives, inf evasion becomes my Holy Grail in teh end game - getting it to 8 is required - 9 a significant bonus. I got to 10 once on a whim to see if i could do it, but I didn't have enough troops to make it worth while (I was devouring my damaged troops in the end for resources to get the RPs...) I found a giant stack of 50 or 60 can lead you to a "soylent green" resource pool when things get REALLY bad. In hindsight repairing damamged 9 evasion guys would have prolonged the game more than consuming them to create RPs for my West german factories...

Resaerch is nmost interesting from teh end of 41 through 43. In 44 you either are good to go and exploit relative advantage, or the long walk home has begun...

Interested in other 'end game" research - anybody do anything besides Inf evasion?

[Paul Vebber]

So basically you can get to the next level without the full investment?

Yup.

Do you need to be within 1 of the level or could you be 2 from it, say you have 5/7 in the research area?

just within 1 - the extra one that the chart adds the moment you go over a multiple of 5.

Is this stuff in the manual?

Yup, with lots of extra stuff that helps give a player that has really studied teh game a nice edge over a casual player. THough bad luck can still derail him!

Man I have to print that thing out one day

Yup! or just read through it one night instead of play.

WHAT AM I SAYING!!!!
[X(][8|]

Maybe if you put it under your pillow osmosis will kick in [>:][8D][:D]

[ratprince]

Paul;

Interesting what your research choices are. I have to admit mine are markedly different (not that mine are better mind you![;)])

I tend to average about:
15% Supply production
40% Units
45% Research

This holds true through most of the game except in periods of LARGE SCALE activity such as Barbarosa or Sea Lion. During the pre-Russia campaign I design my supply usage so as to hit the "fine line" at the end of the turn. I typically have one (1) supply in each captured territory and one (1) supply in areas I feel are at threat of attack. That means from '40 - '43 I end a turn with about 15ish supply. If I end with more than that, I feel I have wasted potential. I look at supply as "potential" energy or manufacturing. If it is sitting in crates, it is a waste.

Once the "war" starts, I tend to up the supply, out of East front demands. HOwever, I maintain the one (1) supply credo and never stray from it. This of course requires huge pre-movement planning of supply usage.


As for research I tend to focu on Airpower, Airpower, Airpower. Ask Barthheart, he will tell you![:'(] We just had a Battle of Britain (Summer '42) with my Luftwaffe number 10 fighters, 11 Tac air and 3 Heavy air. It was a blood bath!! (great fun too by the way!)

I feel that the potential maneuverability, firepower and attack sequence makes airpower the choice for the research dollar. Of course I do not neglect the other areas completely, but tend to "rob from peter" to "pay paul", where peter tends to be my ground forces.

Another reason I go for research in airpower (particularly for germany) is the fact that they are FAST! Any offensive needs lightning strikes and the ability to sweep flanks and such. Long rang, powerful air gives this ability to support a wide range of ops.

My research typicals:

Tac Air: Ground Attack,Range
Fighters: Ground attack, Range, Evasion
Heavy Bombers: Range
Armor: Evasion, Ground attack
Subs: Evasion, Torpedo

That is pretty much it. I dont typically research anything else. I get as high as conceivably possible in these areas (which by '43 is usually 7-9, except subs 4-5)

That's my effort at least....and my opinion! [:'(][;)]

Later Guys!

Mike

[Graymane]

I didn't see a WA list, so I'll post what I do. The WA is a tad bit different cause first they lag way behind in research and have some catch up to do and second they don't get a lot of points to invest until '42 when the modifiers kick in. Pretty much until the USA is in the war, WA is typically limited to roughly 10 points of research per turn. You can go with more than that, but you run the risk of not having enough units on the board. Those 10 points typically come straight from the US while everything else is building supplies and units. I research the following:

1. light fleet ASW and evasion (for uboots)
2. Sub evasion x 1-2 and torp x 3.
3. CAG evasion, AA, torp x 2-3, range, ship attack
4. Transport amphib (although I'm doing this less and less now or later on in favor of more air stuff)
5. Air unit evasion and ground attack for everything and fighter air to air as well.

I do try to get in at least one inf and tank upgrade to both evasion and attack before my landings, but it isn't really required if you have great air power.

Basically I build 4 CV and a sub on the west side for the US on the first turn. Canada does nothing but supply, TP and research. Far East does inf/arty/planes. UK does nothing but air pretty much and a few light fleets. I mix some tranpsorts in there as well. Toward 41, I'll start producing inf and tanks, but really not much until the production bonus kicks in.

[dobeln]

Aye - as the Western Allies, ASW research and air defence in it's various forms need to be at the top of the priority list if you ar e to survive.

[Dalwin]

As the Russians, I like to emphasize ground attack for infantry, artillery and armor. I generally only improve evasion for the armor. This means later on my ground units will die like flies, but as long as I am causing sufficient casualties to the Germans, I am willing to let a few bodies pile up.

[5cats]

Range 2 for fighters is Absolute! They're really useless without it. That's for every nation, particularly Germany.
Big Air (mike m) is countered by Airbase attacks this game has many balances hidden away inside it.
I prefer raiding with Light Warships as Germany. They do the job right off the bat & run away like bunnies!
Generally speaking, don't research what you never build! Having 8/8/8 flak is kinda useless if you only have 1 of them...

[Grifman]

ORIGINAL: 5cats

Range 2 for fighters is Absolute! They're really useless without it. That's for every nation, particularly Germany.
Big Air (mike m) is countered by Airbase attacks this game has many balances hidden away inside it.
I prefer raiding with Light Warships as Germany. They do the job right off the bat & run away like bunnies!
Generally speaking, don't research what you never build! Having 8/8/8 flak is kinda useless if you only have 1 of them...

How do you extend range for fighters? I don't see any tech that increases fighter range.

[AlvinS]

How do you extend range for fighters? I don't see any tech that increases fighter range.

Research Speed and that will extend your range.

[Maginot]

To be honest, I still don't really understand research. I wish it would go a little faster, though I know its a must otherwise people would get death-star esque stuff so fast. I'm right in thinking that the game limits you too how much you can improve something, correct? Often I find myself increasing a (1/6) to a mere (2/6), and the game no allowing me to increase it any further despite my ample research points left.

Well I figured out Supplies today. Tomorow is research.