damage units?

[jgonzo]

I am at work so I cannot look it up to see if it is in the docs.

When a unit gets damaged I know it goes back to the production queue. What queue does it go to.

For example a Western Alliance(WA) infantry gets damaged. does it go to the closest factory or to the factory that built it?

Thanks

[MButtazoni]

well it definately does not go back to the factory that created it as that informatin is not "kept" by the unit. From what i have seen it goes back to the closest Factory that it can be shipped to (no path = the unit is destroyed). I do not believe there is any Factory capacity used in the algorithm.

[traemyn]

so even if the factory can only produce research and supply, will it still be placed there for repair?

[artgrtr8u]

It would go back to a factory where you would normally be able to produce some sort of military unit, i.e. one where you can actually use the available population. For instance, I've had fighters go back to Rumania for repair even though Rumania cannot normally produce fighters, because it does have useable manpower. A damaged unit wouldn't go back to someplace like Kiev (I'm speaking from the German perspective) where you can only produce supply and research.

[jgonzo]

Ok if I am understadning correctly that can cause havoc on the brits production.

example:
The Americans ship a ton of unit to England who then uses them to invade Europe. A huge counter attack occurs after a sucessful landing something like 48 germans versus 36 Western Alliance. That would send all the dammaged units to England. making englands production spiral useless for quite sometime as it deals with all the dammaged units.

Is this correct?

[Barthheart]

Yep. Scary isn't it?[;)]

[Dalwin]

ORIGINAL: jgonzo

Ok if I am understadning correctly that can cause havoc on the brits production.

example:
The Americans ship a ton of unit to England who then uses them to invade Europe. A huge counter attack occurs after a sucessful landing something like 48 germans versus 36 Western Alliance. That would send all the dammaged units to England. making englands production spiral useless for quite sometime as it deals with all the dammaged units.

Is this correct?

Absolutely right. I have only recently started playing the WA after first playing a few games as each of the other sides (except China). I find that once the U.S. enters all my British population points are tied up in repairing damaged units. They usually fall way behind and I end up with a bunch of units on hold.

This looks like a real problem to me when it comes to a late game push toward Germany. I am starting to think that in earlier years I need to hold back several points of British Pop rather than using them up.

[artgrtr8u]

Maybe we should be able to move population units via transport, to get those raw recruits in the USA over to England to rebuild those tank divisions for Patton.

[color]

ORIGINAL: Dalwin

This looks like a real problem to me when it comes to a late game push toward Germany. I am starting to think that in earlier years I need to hold back several points of British Pop rather than using them up.

Please keep in mind that Population in any given area’s Population Pool at the end of a player’s Production Phase may never exceed the population value of the region.

In other words, you can only save up the Population from the current turn, everything else is lost.

Jorgen

[Paul Vebber]

This is one reason in AI games I have built extra factories in England lately...Its amazing what 2 extra factories can do in the end game!

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: MButtazoni

well it definately does not go back to the factory that created it as that informatin is not "kept" by the unit. From what i have seen it goes back to the closest Factory that it can be shipped to (no path = the unit is destroyed). I do not believe there is any Factory capacity used in the algorithm.

I THINK the truth is somewhere in between, so the unit goes to nearest factory of the NATIONALITY that created it.

So an unit created in British factory will go to the nearest Brit factory. It will go back to England factory even if it was created in Scotland, if England is the nearest area it can trace supply back to. But it will not go to US if the path to UK is available. Similarly damaged US units won't burden UK factories, they will go back to US.

That is how I THINK the game works, but don't take my opinion for granted.

And BTW, IIRC Joel once said the game actually stores the info as to where the unit was produced and what nationality it belongs to, only this info is not visible to player. I think this info is used to decide whether US or UK graphic will be used when plaing with Brit Graphic ON.

O.

[Dalwin]

ORIGINAL: color

ORIGINAL: Dalwin

This looks like a real problem to me when it comes to a late game push toward Germany. I am starting to think that in earlier years I need to hold back several points of British Pop rather than using them up.

Please keep in mind that Population in any given area’s Population Pool at the end of a player’s Production Phase may never exceed the population value of the region.

In other words, you can only save up the Population from the current turn, everything else is lost.

Jorgen

Yes, there is a limit to how much population could be held back to deal with the glut of damaged units. However, I currently try to arrange my production such that every point of British population is used. If I held back even 5 points in anticipation of this problem, I would not get backlogged as easily.

[pyrhic]

I'm not so certain about being produced only in factories that can produce them...I know for certain I had a fighter in my Northern italy factory queu...

[Oleg Mastruko]

deleted message, pending further testing

[pyrhic]

trust me, the unit was there. I might have a save file with it. Bug maybe?

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: pyrhic

trust me, the unit was there. I might have a save file with it. Bug maybe?

Actually you could be right (that's why I deleted my message above, and edited my other message). If you have a screenshot or savefile send it to my or Maurice's address.

I am not sure this is a bug. If the damaged Italian fighter unit would be destroyed otherwise (with no factory to go back to), then it's OK for it to go back to Italian factory. Italians can't produce new fighters, but I think it is OK if they are able to repair their own damaged units they start the war with.

O.

[MButtazoni]

Some Nation's factories are allowed to repair units that they are not normally allowed to build. In MOST cases MOST units can be repaired by MOST factories... MOST of the time. [:D]

for a more concise definition from dat/baseline.txt:

Assume that a NATIONs factory can build AND repair a unit UNLESS it is in the following exception list:

Code: Select all

// restrictions on building 
 
 DATA,No build,0
 DATA,Repair Only,1
 
 // Maximum of 4 items per line
 BUILD_RESTRICT,Italy,FIGHTER AIR,Repair Only,CARRIER AIR,Repair Only,TAC AIR,Repair Only,HEAVY AIR,Repair Only
 BUILD_RESTRICT,Italy,INFANTRY,Repair Only,MECHANIZED,Repair Only,FLAK,Repair Only
 BUILD_RESTRICT,Italy,ARTILLERY,Repair Only
 
 BUILD_RESTRICT,Rumania,FIGHTER AIR,Repair Only,CARRIER AIR,Repair Only,TAC AIR,Repair Only,HEAVY AIR,Repair Only
 BUILD_RESTRICT,Rumania,INFANTRY,Repair Only,MECHANIZED,Repair Only,AIRBORNE,Repair Only,FLAK,Repair Only
 BUILD_RESTRICT,Rumania,ARTILLERY,Repair Only,SUB FLEET,0,CARRIER FLEET,0,HEAVY FLEET,0,LIGHT FLEET,0,TRANSPORT FLEET,Repair Only,
 
 BUILD_RESTRICT,Commonwealth,CARRIER AIR,Repair Only,MECHANIZED,Repair Only,HEAVY AIR,0,HEAVY FLEET,0
 BUILD_RESTRICT,Commonwealth,CARRIER FLEET,0,LIGHT FLEET,Repair Only,SUB FLEET,Repair Only
 
 BUILD_RESTRICT,Canada,CARRIER AIR,Repair Only,HEAVY FLEET,0
 BUILD_RESTRICT,Canada,CARRIER FLEET,0,SUB FLEET,Repair Only

[Dalwin]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

ORIGINAL: pyrhic

trust me, the unit was there. I might have a save file with it. Bug maybe?

Actually you could be right (that's why I deleted my message above, and edited my other message). If you have a screenshot or savefile send it to my or Maurice's address.

I am not sure this is a bug. If the damaged Italian fighter unit would be destroyed otherwise (with no factory to go back to), then it's OK for it to go back to Italian factory. Italians can't produce new fighters, but I think it is OK if they are able to repair their own damaged units they start the war with.

O.

I always assumed that was what was happening when I see a fighter in Rumania's queue. Since they started with a single fighter, I saw no problem with them repairing one even though they can't build new ones.

[DrewMatrix]

That would send all the dammaged units to England.

It would seem to me in Real Life if a bomber was damaged over Germany (A US B-17 Bomber) you would try to repair it in England, using supplies and machinery and people in England. In real life you would _not_ send it back to the Boeing plant in Seattle to be repaired.

And knowing this I would earmark a lot of English factory capacity for near-the-front-line repairs, not de novo construction. Do the de novo construction in Seattle.

The way the rule works seems reasonable to me.

[Dalwin]

ORIGINAL: Beezle

That would send all the dammaged units to England.

It would seem to me in Real Life if a bomber was damaged over Germany (A US B-17 Bomber) you would try to repair it in England, using supplies and machinery and people in England. In real life you would _not_ send it back to the Boeing plant in Seattle to be repaired.

And knowing this I would earmark a lot of English factory capacity for near-the-front-line repairs, not de novo construction. Do the de novo construction in Seattle.

The way the rule works seems reasonable to me.

The problem is not so much using the factories in England for the repairs. The real problem is that it ends up being English manpower used to bring the unit back to full strength.

Don't think of "repairing" a damaged air unit as fixing damaged planes. Think of it as bringing in enough replacement aircraft and replacement pilots to get the unit back to full strength. Those replacements should be coming from America if it is a damaged American unit even if the depleted unit sits in England waiting for replacements rather than being shipped back to the U.S.