submarine op-fire consumes torpedoes

[WanderingHead]

The rulebook (page 61) states that op-fire does not consume supplies. Yet I have observed that when submarines op-fire, they lose one torpedo per targeted unit (not just one per turn like traditional supply for defense).

This has made some submarine blockades of massed transport fleets a lot less effective than expected, since the subs run out of torpedos. Can also be a nuisance if you'd rather the subs preserve torps for some future action.

It seems to contradict the rule book and place subs at an op-fire disadvantage relative to other units. Is this behavior as intended?

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

The rulebook (page 61) states that op-fire does not consume supplies. Yet I have observed that when submarines op-fire, they lose one torpedo per targeted unit (not just one per turn like traditional supply for defense).

This has made some submarine blockades of massed transport fleets a lot less effective than expected, since the subs run out of torpedos. Can also be a nuisance if you'd rather the subs preserve torps for some future action.

It seems to contradict the rule book and place subs at an op-fire disadvantage relative to other units. Is this behavior as intended?

I know this will sound snotty, but the rule book says "supplies" and not "torpedoes". [:'(] So it is working as designed. Subs only use supplies to get a new load of torpedoes. Subs are better used for hit and run, ie sail out - sink stuff - sail back to port. You can leave them for blockades but if your opponent is on the ball he'll attack you a number of time to use up your torps then sink you. [X(]

[WanderingHead]

ORIGINAL: Barthheart
I know this will sound snotty, but the rule book says "supplies" and not "torpedoes". [:'(] So it is working as designed.

Indeed. But it doesn't actually say anything specific about torpedoes, so the inference is obvious and I don't think either of us can actually say how it was intended to be designed.

I'm still interested in a confirmation from the developers as to whether this is as intended. If there is ever a revision to rule book I'd suggest that it be clarified.

[Oleg Mastruko]

It works as intended. For some time during mid-beta there was a bug when subs opfired on ships (and their cargo) even when left without torpedos. This was a bug and was treated as such, so now subs expend torpedos for every attack they make. No torpedos = no attack, no opfire.

Finally, isn't that logical? Subs are the only units that don't retreat, and don't require mandatory combat. Opfire is HUGE thing when using subs. In fact it's the most important thing because if you want to block WA transport lanes you will leave some high-evasion subs with torpedos after you finish your German turn, to do opfire during WA turn.

There would be no sense in ever researching sub torpedo tech if it wasn't for the opfire and resulting expenditure of torpedos. Without subs spending torps on opfire I'd be OK with them having torp level 2 and never researching it.

O.

[WanderingHead]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

It works as intended.

Actually, in addition to the inference from Op-Fire by all other units, it seems to somewhat contradict the (only slightly related) rules on defense, in which a whole territory uses only 1 supply per turn, no matter how many times it is attacked.

I don't really think it is all that big deal, it just slightly bugs me because it occurs when it is not your turn and you can't control it.

Say, for instance, that you blockade the Med to prevent supplies reaching a WA fleet stuck south of Italy (hey! this is a real live example! this is where it came up...). Now, the sub could op-fire as soon as a transport passes overhead, or it could wait until actual supplies (or troops in some other situation) pass overhead. My choice as a player would be the latter, but the game expends the torps right away and may miss the opportunity to do the more damaging attack.

I guess the related question would be: do subs consume torps every time they are attacked, even multiple times in 1 turn? I haven't tested it.

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead
Actually, in addition to the inference from Op-Fire by all other units, it seems to somewhat contradict the (only slightly related) rules on defense, in which a whole territory uses only 1 supply per turn, no matter how many times it is attacked.
...
I guess the related question would be: do subs consume torps every time they are attacked, even multiple times in 1 turn? I haven't tested it.

Yeah again it's torps not supplies. This seems like a glib answer but subs at sea really were constrained by how much they could do by their very limited on board ammo supply. While supplies in a land zone can be seen to be a stock pile drawn on for the whole turn. Kind of a nit picky answer but I feel that it works very well in the game and simulates the problems of a sub campaign pretty well.
As for your second question, yes every tiem a sub is attacked by naval units it will spend one torp to fire back. If you end your turn at sea with two torps your opponet cn attack you twice to use all your torps then attack you some more without fear of getting hit. So unless your sub has a full load of torps I would not stay at sea... unless your opponent has too few unit for this tactic.