You don't like WitP? Go someplace esle

[mc3744]

In the past weeks I've been reading here and there minor and major criticisms to the game.

I'm somehow fed up (in a midl way [:)]) with this.

One thing is to give an opinion/suggestion to improve, that's constructive. But to say things like 'the game is screwed up' or 'I'm soon going to give it up' and the like doesn't make sense. I mean, it does, but not in this forum. [:-]

You don't like it, buy something else and leave us alone, please!

I'm here to exchange comments, learn new things (on the game and history) and give my 2 cents to try to improve (if possible) the game.

Just to further clarify somehow my position:

I've been playing wargames (board and PC) for the past 24 years. I've been writing reviews when I was studying and I've started again one year ago (thanks to WitP). I think I played and purchased at least 80% of the wargames on the market.
Hence I feel I can rightly say that (as most forum dwellers here [;)]) that I'm an expert not just an amateur.
Some of those above mentioned games (few) I enjoyed A LOT.
No one, and I mean NO ONE like WitP, ever. I haven't purchased a new game in months, and I have to force myself to play the review codes I receive FOR FREE. That has to count for something!!!

I know WitP is not perfect, but definitely one of the best so far (best for me).

Please be smart! You want Matrix to work on WitP? Give them reasons to. To criticize heavily is a good reason to stop supporting not to continue.
I'm in the software business, in sales and marketing more precisely. If we want WitP not to die (development wise) we have to give Matrix some good reasons. Saying that the game sucks is not listed among the good reasons.

So once again: be smart or leave us alone. Plese, please, please [&o]

[Rob Brennan UK]

Seconded

[CoffeeMug]

concur

[m10bob]

AMEN,brother..............

[wild_Willie2]

In the past weeks I've been reading here and there minor and major criticisms to the game.

Well, now you started about it, I have some minor and major criticisms about the game. [;)][:D]

Let’s see...........

Stupid AI, Stupid Ai, Stupid AI, stupid AI, A quarter of the game features never worked properly, Another quarter used to work reasonable, BUT NOT ANYMORE, Stupid AI, Bad documentation, Stupid AI, BAD interface, Stupid AI, BAD production layout, Stupid AI, land combat model is BAD, Stupid AI, ASW is BAD, did I mention a BAD AI ??.


And even with al these imperfections, I Still love the game..... [&o][:'(][:)]

[Nikademus]

mature voices are always appreciated. [;)]

Regrettably, the sad reality is that wargames that sponsor forums will always have situations like this. I took a trip over to the IL/Pacific Fighters forum the other day and had a real amusing read of a one particular thread full of the same mixture of constructive critism and cat fighting that can often be found here. Subject? why what else......F4F stats/preformance vs A6M stats preformance. This thread had it all....people arguing stats, people arguing politely, people presenting their own interpretation of history, and oh yes, a few certain people attacking others and arguing just for the sake of such in the hopes of scoring personal points. lol.....only thing missing was the word "Fanboy".

no wonder Oleg comes in here with such a high spirited sense of humor. [:'(]

[Rob Brennan UK]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

mature voices are always appreciated. [;)]

Regrettably, the sad reality is that wargames that sponsor forums will always have situations like this. I took a trip over to the IL/Pacific Fighters forum the other day and had a real amusing read of a one particular thread full of the same mixture of constructive critism and cat fighting that can often be found here. Subject? why what else......F4F stats/preformance vs A6M stats preformance. This thread had it all....people arguing stats, people arguing politely, people presenting their own interpretation of history, and oh yes, a few certain people attacking others and arguing just for the sake of such in the hopes of scoring personal points. lol.....only thing missing was the word "Fanboy".

no wonder Oleg comes in here with such a high spirited sense of humor. [:'(]

LOL i was reading the same thread i think , yes your right. Every forum from this to world of Warcraft is usually populated by moaners etc. The ones who like the game seldom feel the need to post, just read the AAR's and tips and info. I only started posting when i wanted some specific wuestion asked and I've been drawn into the community here by a mix of curiosity/incedulity.

Unfortunately we all know no-one will stop moaning because of this post but i feel better having experessed an opinion. guess that holds true for all posters of whaetever persuasion they happen to be [:D]

[rtrapasso]

I just saw the Showtime (cable) episode of Penn & Teller's program "Bullsh*t" about college and free speach. They made the point (which i a coming to believe is true) that people now believe they have a right not to be offended by other people's speach, sentiments, etc. They (Penn and Teller) made the point there is no such right to be not offended.

There have been a lot of people posting on this forum that have been useful, provocative, and funny. They no longer post here. Why?

Because in so many words, of intolerant attitudes by many on the forum.

"I don't like your attitude, so leave".

And they did.

Personally, i miss these folk. It is a very boring exercise to read a bunch of technical details about the game (or whatever) without some serious discussion on where this is all going, and what needs to be done.

Mind you, i am not advocating personal attacks on folk, flaming, etc. But i do think there is room for tolerance here on this forum, and elsewhere.

[tsimmonds]

There is a reliable cure for the pain and itching caused by reading posts not to one's liking: don't read them. I recommend it highly [;)].

This is after all a public forum, and should be open to all points of view, even those held by morons with whom I disagree [:'(]

[DuckofTindalos]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Mind you, i am not advocating personal attacks on folk, flaming, etc. But i do think there is room for tolerance here on this forum, and elsewhere.

Yeah, but shouldn't that apply to both sides of the argument? I mean, shouldn't people be allowed to say that they enjoy WitP without being pounded on by 17,000 reheated reasons why WitP is a bad game?

I'm all for tolerance, but it's easy to get frustrated when you read the N'th negative post.

[mc3744]

Hey rtrapasso

I never meant to 'send away' "useful, provocative or funny" people.

My point is that one thing is to constructively criticize, another to 'destroy' the game.
And I personally have read several posts in this direction.

I have many complaints with the game and I have and will keep posting them. But the goal is to get the game better, to get a WitP II and to keep enjoying.

I have the strong feeling that some people (I have no one specifically in mind) enjoy the critisism by itslef, it becomes the goal not the mean. This is futile and wrong in my opinion (which obviously you may not share).

My personal goal - I understand not everybody can share it - is to have Matrix and the 2by3 to keep working and improving WitP. IMHO the above mentioned criticism goes against this goal I have, I'm therefore posting to support my aim. Hoping not to be the only one with this feeling.

[DuckofTindalos]

I absolutely want to see Matrix and 2by3 continue in existence. I don't think they can do much more with WitP, for technical reasons, but I'd like them to remake War in Russia sharpish.

Until then, I'm very much looking forward to Warplan Orange. Get going, guys! [:D]

[mc3744]

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

There is a reliable cure for the pain and itching caused by reading posts not to one's liking: don't read them. I recommend it highly [;)].

This is after all a public forum, and should be open to all points of view, even those held by morons with whom I disagree [:'(]

[:D] Any suggestion on how to know before reading what's in the post? [:D]

Yes it is a public forum and I'm therefore saying what my feelings are. That I'd be happier with fewer meaningless attacks and more 'construction'. You have - of course - the right to disagree.

I still believe this is the WitP forum, not just 'a' public forum. Hence it should be somehow devoted to people caring for WitP. As one of those I hate it when, IMHO, the say things that might undermine the will of the publisher/developer to keep supporting the game.

[tsimmonds]

Any suggestion on how to know before reading what's in the post?

Of course you can't, but you can have a pretty good idea what it may be like just by checking who made it. Also, once you start reading, you can stop in the middle. Without finishing![;)]

[mc3744]

...

[Mr.Frag]

There is a difference between venting and critique. One is productive, the other is not.

There are a million and one things I would change if I was writing this game from scratch.

The realities is understanding that this game has code dating all the way back to Battle of Britain (Talonsoft). Certain things can be changed without breaking things as you have seen over the patches. Other things can be changed at the expense of breaking something else (Auto Convoy in last patch). Other things simply can not be changed.

Rehashing the things that can not be changed over and over again is rather pointless, yet with any product it generally is 80% of the forum content. [:D]

[rtrapasso]

Rehashing the things that can not be changed over and over again is rather pointless, yet with any product it generally is 80% of the forum content. [:D]

Sturgeon's Law: 90% of anything is cr@p!*

If only 80% is rehash, we are doing well.


(*Actually said it about science fiction, but it has been widely applied to any subject).

[DuckofTindalos]

80% rehash is an average; sometimes we get well over 100% [:D] Speaking of which, where's Pasternakski?

[freeboy]

I just saw the Showtime (cable) episode of Penn & Teller's program "Bullsh*t" about college and free speach. They made the point (which i a coming to believe is true) that people now believe they have a right not to be offended by other people's speach, sentiments, etc. They (Penn and Teller) made the point there is no such right to be not offended.

Amazingthat the livberal coleges are the worst places for free speach.. tell anything say anything EXCIEPT non PC things... I was halled before the Dean of students at Harvard due to a very non offensive band in a public venue with all the proper paperwork and such.. we do not the norm of critical thinking, that is to rreason from the whole to the particular and debatre meaning and structure, presuposition and conjecture.. most of the problem is the knee jerking reactive stance... like my home page "yahoo " which is so completely re-hashing anti-conservative biased news it is amazing. Let me also say I love reasoned debate, liberal, or other .. just the self righteous we no it all attitude really tweeks my feathers.. LOTS! .. ok enough venting for one day!

[rtrapasso]

Amazingthat the livberal coleges are the worst places for free speach.. tell anything say anything EXCIEPT non PC things... I was halled before the Dean of students at Harvard due to a very non offensive band in a public venue with all the proper paperwork and such.. we do not the norm of critical thinking, that is to rreason from the whole to the particular and debatre meaning and structure, presuposition and conjecture.. most of the problem is the knee jerking reactive stance... like my home page "yahoo " which is so completely re-hashing anti-conservative biased news it is amazing. Let me also say I love reasoned debate, liberal, or other .. just the self righteous we no it all attitude really tweeks my feathers.. LOTS! .. ok enough venting for one day!

If you can see this episode of Bullsh*t on Showtime, you may be interested/amused, although it sounds like you may have the gist of the conclusions already.