Nik Mod 2.0

Please post here for questions and discussion about scenario design and the game editor for WITP.

Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami

User avatar
Nikademus
Posts: 22517
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Alien spacecraft

Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Nikademus »

I am pleased to announce that Spooky has graciously consented to host my own mod of the G.Campaign on his UV/WitP fansite. It should (hopefully) be up shortly. I have listed the changes below. This mod is a work in progress so future versions may see new features added (I'm toying with adding Pry's and Don's transport reduction scheme for example) and existing features tweaked as gameplay gets more ironed out.

Deletions from 1.0

a) removed Merchant DUR change. Now that cargo can be damaged by hits it seemed superfluous

b) small naval gun penetration tweak has been removed baring more testing.

Below are the listed changes:

Nik Mod Version 2.0


Changes-


1. Formatic Speed modifications to fighter aircraft. Purpose is to reduce the effect of the "speed" variable in A2A combat. Blunts extreme situations such as Nate/Claude vs anything or A6M vs F4U. Increases the importance of experience. Speed remains the most important variable....just not so overwhelmingly so that it negates all other variables. Preserves the preporational relationship in speed between the various airframes.

2. Armament mod and MVR modification for Ki-27/43 and A5M4. New Device armaments created for these planes, duplicated in all aspects save for ACC which has been doubled. These devices are labeled with (.c.) designation (centerline) Purpose: Because of the linear nature of how WitP calculates “gun values” weakly armed fighters such as these two children suffer disproportionate and outragious kill ratios vs modern fighters armed with high valued devices (classic example – 6 x .50cal) As a result in most cases when a P40 for example fires a “pulse” of fire in the combat animation it scores a kill vs these aircraft. When these aircraft fire, they score a “damage” 9.9 out of 10 times. Result is a badly skewed and expensive kill often on the order of 11-20:0. It is hoped that with these changes that what will result more often is a high degree of nimble evasion on the part of Oscar in particular thus reducing kill scores against them with a boost in ammo power that will increase tendancy of kills somewhat. Version 2.0 debutes the MVR change and a further increase of the ACC so this change is not fully tested.


3. DUR change for all aircraft. (increased by 50%) Purpose: To reduce air to air bloodiness which in particular for 6x .50cal and cannon armed Japanese fighters is rampent.

4. ASW change for IJN subs. IJN Sub DUR increased by 4x. Because of the effect this would have on Japanese production, IJN Subs have been removed from production and added to game at location 350 Purpose: IJN subs in early half of war can now survive Allied ASW attacks better in deep water hexes thus avoiding the first discover, first hit, first kill effect often seen in the stock scenerio. Don’t try this in shallow water kids.  A FAQ with Japanese sub deployments will be included in the mod. To save time I am simply listing the month and year that the sub would be “completed” based on the OOB’s. (Yes I could go through my own sources for this but who has time for that?!!! ;-) ) The AI of course will not follow this schedule and will use all 110 “building” subs. However since the AI always deploys them BADLY, I figure this is a hancicap that Allied players can live with. We all like increased challenge. 

5. AA modification : DP and AA weapons have had effect rating increased by 50% Purpose: compensate for aircraft DUR change

6. Altered the starting fully trained pilot pools and fully trained pilot production rate. Purpose: to prevent the sudden complete drop in pilot quality due to the adding of half trained/untrained exp 20-30 pilots into frontline combat units and change it instead to a gradual drop dependant on attrition levels experienced during 1st year of fighting. Also compensates somewhat for the fact that players have to dip into the same pool for fighters, bombers and recon/patrol/transport planes

Japanese navy starting pool – 1000 Production changed to 50 per month
Japanese army starting pool – 500 Production changed to 60 per month

This aspect is not fully tested yet. A future version may see a decrease in the starting Navy pool.

Japanese army train level increased to 60base

10. Heavy bomber loadouts reduced by 50%. Purpose - reduce overwhelming effect of heavy bombers attacking bases and ground LCU’s. Also represents the fact that in the first half of the war, heavies often flew with a variety of loadouts and rarely at full capacity.

11. B-17 production altered. Reduced to 8+8 for 16 examples a month Purpose: Represent historical trickle of B-17’s for the Pacific. Should eliminate the 2/42 I’m being attacked by full strength B-17 groups all over the map effect and instead, encourage players to use their precious 17’s more cautiously.

12. Daily supply gain for Allied cities reduced. Indian bases (Karachi and Bombay) by ¾ and US production cities by ½ Resource amounts have not been changed. Purpose: Slow down the logistics aspect somewhat which is generally greatly accelerated due to the abstraction of all logistics into “supply points” This feature has not been tested. I suspect it will have little impact on the west coast but may help slow down India being turned into a bombing powerhouse too soon.

13. OOB changes

- Corrected IJN cruiser main turret armor
- Corrected USN cruiser main turret armor
- changed all wooden decked carriers to 20mm for deck armor (Junyo – 0) to allow 500lb and 250lb weapons to penetrate the flight deck instead of bouncing off
- P-40E MVR reduced by 1 point
- P-39 MVR and DUR reduced and 37mm cannon Acc reduced to 1.
- pre 41 USN aircraft armor reduced to 0 (USAAF did not begin retrofitting self sealing tanks and armor till around this time starting with the most modern planes first. TBD could not accomidate armor/self sealing upgrade, armor reduced to 0.
- F4F, F6F, P-47 armor increased to 2
- SBD armor increased to 2. TBF armor increased to 3 Should blunt losses to large gaggles of Zeros and beter differeniate them from their more vulnerable counterparts in the Japanese navy
- Yamato class DUR increased by 50% (actually the max rating allowed is 255) and removed from production (purpose: with a tweak to increase torpedo effectivness, this class can often be crippled and sunk with 4-6 torps. This change is not fully tested and might unbalance surface combat if setting up a straight BB fight, however I consider it more likely that these ships will face aircraft than Iowa class battleships. Yamato commissions 12/41 and Musashi Commissions 5/42
- KI-100 MVR increase by 1 point
- F4F-4 Production start date moved from 12/41 to 4/42. The -4 varient was still the XF4F-4 in Dec 41 and when production began initially east coast squadrons were equipped with the new varient. Pacific based CV VF’s began converting at the end March 42.



User avatar
pry
Posts: 938
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Overlooking Galveston Bay, Texas

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by pry »

Japanese navy starting pool – 1000 Production changed to 50 per month
Japanese army starting pool – 500 Production changed to 60 per month

Wow Nik,....

At 35 Army pilots per month in my scenario I have more than I can use, at 25 Navy pilots I use them all and do see a very gradual decline in experence levels if you dont fly them every day like most players do (sure would be nice if the fatigue penality was much harsher for constant use)

I have been thinking about adding more pilots to the starting pools of my scenarios but have not commited to that just yet, My research indicated thru 12/41 Japan had some 6,000 fully trained pilots (Army and Navy) the game only accounts for about 5,000 of these, with about 1,000 unaccounted for.
User avatar
Nikademus
Posts: 22517
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Alien spacecraft

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Nikademus »

Interestingly enough, in my game with Kaiser, the Army pool is dangerously depleated as of 3/42 (166 pilots) With the massive battles of the last week over PM, the Naval pool is down to 50% of the orig start (555 pilots) I may reduce the naval pool in a future mod but am still gathering info as our game progresses further into 42. The overall effect has been exactly what I wanted. Japanese "elite" groups have dropped slightly in exp as fully trained draftees averaging 66-67 in exp fill in to replace the elite.

I'm thinking of adding in your merchant transport changes as I think its a really good idea. Did you just change the AK's or all of them? (I had downloaded your files but lost them during the last move into the current abode...too many computers....to many emails!!!!) Did you just cut AK capacity in half?
User avatar
Captain Cruft
Posts: 3741
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: England

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Captain Cruft »

Yes wow, that pilot pool is way over the top IMHO. To the point of game-unbalancing.

Apart from that I like it a lot. Serious attempts at working around problems with the engine.

One question though. With all those ships taken out of production have you reduced the Naval Shipyard factories?

BTW for anyone wondering location 350 is Ominato.
User avatar
Nikademus
Posts: 22517
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Alien spacecraft

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Nikademus »

The idea behind the pool value is to give the Japanese enough pilots to be able to fight through 42 and possibly part of 43 t a moderate attrition rate before exhausting the pool which then results in half trained/untrained pilots entering in the front line units (exp 20-30) I may reduce it to 750 or 500 in a future version but i'm waiting to see how the fight against Kaiser goes. As mentioned, its still early 42 and the pool is half empty already.

I have not adjusted Japanese production as of yet. I am admitedly, allergic to production....and math makes my eye twitch uncontrollably. If someone wants to write up a figure on that i'll be happy to implement it.
User avatar
pry
Posts: 938
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 7:19 am
Location: Overlooking Galveston Bay, Texas

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by pry »

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

I'm thinking of adding in your merchant transport changes as I think its a really good idea. Did you just change the AK's or all of them? (I had downloaded your files but lost them during the last move into the current abode...too many computers....to many emails!!!!) Did you just cut AK capacity in half?


Ship Changes
Japanese
Reduced cargo capacities of all AP's and AK's, AP's (L) 2250, (M) 1500, (S) 750 AK's (L) 5500, (S) 1750
Reduced tankers capacities by 1/3 rd. 11000 and 6000 left Navy tankers at stock capacity

Allied
Reduced cargo capacities of all AP's and AK's, AP's (L) 3000, (M) 2000, (S) 1000 AK's (L) 5500, (S) 2250, Liberty 5600 Victory 5900.
Reduced tankers capacities by 1/3 rd. (L) 12000 and (S) 6000 left Navy tankers at stock capacity
The idea behind the pool value is to give the Japanese enough pilots to be able to fight through 42 and possibly part of 43 t a moderate attrition rate before exhausting the pool which then results in half trained/untrained pilots entering in the front line units (exp 20-30)

I have to disagree with your thinking here my old friend... the collaspe should start 8-9/42 not early 43
ckk
Posts: 1241
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Pensacola Beach FL

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by ckk »

I think your reduction of B17's will stop the Allies from mounting strategic bombing campaigns in 1942[8D] I've found this to be along with evacuation of Dutch and Phillipene baseforces, to be the most unbalancing aspect of WITP.BTW where is Mod 1.0 and do I have to install it before 2.0?
User avatar
Nikademus
Posts: 22517
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Alien spacecraft

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Nikademus »

You reduced the AP's too? hmm. Doesn't that mess with the Turn 1 loadouts?

ORIGINAL: pry


I have to disagree with your thinking here my old friend... the collaspe should start 8-9/42 not early 43

True, actually the Japanese didn't even have enough trained pilots at war's start according to Pettie. The problem here as I've always seen it is an interpretational one. The interpretation is what value contitutes a fully trained pilot graduating from the Japanese schools. Brady has posted alot of statistical estimates for example but they dont tell us how good they were in terms of a value from 0-99. My sources document both Allied and Japanese pilots commenting adversely on the "quality" of replacement Japanese pilots filtering in at around 8 - 10/42 but again the question has to be asked, was this adverse comment the result of being green or being incompletely trained. My impression at this point is that they were fully trained but inexperienced, same as with the green Allied pilots filtering in at the same time. There is also the problem of having one pool to fill all kinds of airgroups (carrier, front line and second line and patrol) and the fact that op losses take away pilots in most cases (something i've always hated)

That leads us to the pools. To me the pool represents pilots who have completed basic/advanced flight training On that notion one could argue that the Japanese base exp should perhaps be lowered....perhaps. Regardless, in the end, it doesn't make sense to me for untrained (20-30exp) pilots filtering in front line units on 12/8 thus the pool change. Should it prove in my current PBEM that the Japanese are keeping the pools too well up, I will certainly reduce it.

I made the early 43 reference to account for the fact that the pool levels will be largely dependant on how both players conduct themselves. If the Japan player is sucked into a serious and costly war of attrition early on, the pool will rapidly exhaust, if not, the Japan player might be able to keep the pool partially filled into 43. To use the real life example, the Japanese made a costly habit out of loaning their carrier airgroups to aid in land based air offensives....as a result, they fell behind the curve in being able to adequately retrain their shattered carrier groups and entered 44 with a bunch of half trained and totally green pilots sprinkeled with a few surviving veterans to face a superior foe.
User avatar
Nikademus
Posts: 22517
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Alien spacecraft

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Nikademus »

ORIGINAL: ckk

I think your reduction of B17's will stop the Allies from mounting strategic bombing campaigns in 1942[8D] I've found this to be along with evacuation of Dutch and Phillipene baseforces, to be the most unbalancing aspect of WITP.BTW where is Mod 1.0 and do I have to install it before 2.0?

It has. In my game with Kaiser, he did some small bombings against my strategic assets from Darwin and moved the 39th BG from Seattle to Port M. and started hitting Rabaul. In both cases I was very aggressive in going after them and managed to destroy a good number on the ground (50-60 so far) that'll hurt and the 17's have gone back into hiding as of end of 3/42

This was a nice change from my last PBEM (which i guess you could call version 0.5) which didn't have the production change. By the same date, I was being hit by full or near full strength 17 BG's in Burma, Java and PM. yikes.

Ver 1.0 was never released to the public. Its being used in the Beer Wars AAR to test things out (including the already controversial Japanese pilot pool [;)] )

I dont have an installer for the mod. All you have to do is unzip the files into the appropriate directly

all but the ART files will go into the War in the Pacific\SCEN file. the ART files go into War in the Pacific\ART
User avatar
Nikademus
Posts: 22517
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Alien spacecraft

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Nikademus »

wanna test it with me? id reaallllllly like to play allies. [:D]
User avatar
Andrew Brown
Posts: 4083
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Hex 82,170
Contact:

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Andrew Brown »

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
12. Daily supply gain for Allied cities reduced. Indian bases (Karachi and Bombay) by ¾ and US production cities by ½ Resource amounts have not been changed. Purpose: Slow down the logistics aspect somewhat which is generally greatly accelerated due to the abstraction of all logistics into “supply points” This feature has not been tested. I suspect it will have little impact on the west coast but may help slow down India being turned into a bombing powerhouse too soon.

This change is very interesting to me. Do you have any idea how this supply reduction works out in the long term? I have been thinking of introducing similar reductions for a while, but I have never had the time to playtest them. Please let us all know how this change turns out Nik.

Information about my WitP map, and CHS, can be found on my WitP website

Image
User avatar
Bombur
Posts: 3666
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:50 am

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Bombur »

-Won´t the new armor values for SBD´s and TBF´s result in invincible bombers able to attack withouth escort?
ckk
Posts: 1241
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Pensacola Beach FL

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by ckk »

Pry has already done this. Eliminated Bombay and Los Angeles and reduced Karachi to 10/5 a day moved SFO To US and reduced to 30/20 daily. I've played until 1943 against AI. SEAC effectively neutralized by the Supplies. But I never really counter attack there until 1944. IN the POA's I had to wait for supplies, especiallywith the reduced sea borne capacities but I was pretty much able to be in the same positions as before because I still had the 4E bombers to let me destroy Rabaul and Truk and move on.
With Niks reduced B17's I'll bet it won't be the same now.[:'(]
User avatar
Nikademus
Posts: 22517
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Alien spacecraft

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Nikademus »

well lets put it this way. I said I was alergic to math but i can manage the simple kind at times [;)]

even reduced by 75%, Karachi for example will still automatically recieve 112,500 supply points each month with the reduction. Before that....it was 450,000

Such a massive influx of supply made my standard Allied tactic to take all those available merchants and ship 1-2 hundred thousand points to eastern India straight away and ensure that there would never be a lack of supply there. One reason why i went duck hunting in my current game in the IO.....didn't have the supply change yet so the only thing i could do was go after the merchants that carry it. Got 30-40.....that should slow down the traffic for a while.

West coast will probably only be marginally impacted. I didn't want to do too much for the 1st shot at it and have people emailing me telling me i'd crippled the allied side logistically. cut in half, SF still gets 12,500 per day. that translates to 375,000 supply points per month. (yikes)

I can see now why Pry and Don wanted to reduce AK capacity. [X(]
User avatar
Subchaser
Posts: 1015
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:16 pm

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Subchaser »

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

...and moved the 39th BG from Seattle to Port M. and started hitting Rabaul.

39th BG is still B-17 unit?!
The real history of the 39th Bomb Group begins at Smoky Hill Army Air Field, Salina, Kansas on 12 April 1944. On that date, the Group was activated as a very heavy bombardment unit to participate in the then new B-29 Superfortress program. In reality this activation was a re-activation, for there had been an old B-17 training Group called the 39th. However, records of that organization are scanty and, not being a combat unit, it bears little or no relationship to the "Fighting 39th," as the Group is known by the men who were in it during the days when it was helping to bomb Japan out of the war.

Image
User avatar
Nikademus
Posts: 22517
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Alien spacecraft

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Nikademus »

ORIGINAL: Bombur

-Won´t the new armor values for SBD´s and TBF´s result in invincible bombers able to attack withouth escort?

no, it shouldn't.

An area where my mod ver 1 broke down was in a large CV 6 on 5 battle. 185 SBD's went down and a large # of TBF's as well (and F4f). Giving them increased armor made it less silly at around 70-80 vs slightly over 100 enemy fighters on CAP after recreating the same battle in a test environment. The TBF armor 3 does make the tacticals very tough....in smaller type engagements the risk of making them too tough would be high so i limited it to the ultra big ultra tough TBF which could take a severe amount of punishment for a single engined bomber.
User avatar
Nikademus
Posts: 22517
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Alien spacecraft

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Nikademus »

ORIGINAL: Subchaser



39th BG is still B-17 unit?!

[.


uh....yeah [:(]
User avatar
Nikademus
Posts: 22517
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Alien spacecraft

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Nikademus »

Scenerio is now up on Spooky's site. [:)]
User avatar
Nikademus
Posts: 22517
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Alien spacecraft

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Nikademus »

Version 2.1 has been sent to Spooky for posting. It incorporates the upcoming patch changes (including the Naval gun/DP gun correction for the Japanese side) and also Pry's reduced AP/AK cargo capacity values.

User avatar
Sharkosaurus rex
Posts: 467
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:25 am
Location: under the waves
Contact:

RE: Nik Mod 2.0

Post by Sharkosaurus rex »

Maybe a red hering but I'll type it anyway.

I'm just asking if the armour 3 works on aeroplanes. In 12 O'Clock High (BTR) you could change the plane armour from 0 to 9, BUT the program only recognised 0,1, and 2!!! Anything higher was ignored!!! And seem WitP has some BTR ancestry I thought I should mention it. Of course it could have been changed and works correctly in WitP.

Is Sharkosaurus rex the biggest fish in the sea?
Why don't you come in for a swim?
Post Reply

Return to “Scenario Design”