'E' class and Queen Elizabeth

[Alikchi2]

Hi! I have two questions, one of them CHS related.

Number one - is the 'E' class destroyer class in CHS meant to represent the 'G' and 'H' classes as well?

Is it the same for the 'J' and 'K' classes (J is ingame, K is not)?

Also, can anyone find the Queen Elizabeth/Barham's stats in 1941? By stats I mean armament, speed, and anything else that would differ from the 7/1942 version already in WitP..

Thanks a bunch! [:)]

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Alikchi

Hi! I have two questions, one of them CHS related.

Number one - is the 'E' class destroyer class in CHS meant to represent the 'G' and 'H' classes as well?

Yes, the "E" class destroyer represents the very similar series "E" thru "H". It's just that "EFGH" doesn't sound right.

Is it the same for the 'J' and 'K' classes (J is ingame, K is not)?

THe "J" represents the series "J", "K", and "N". We have Js and Ns but, as you say, no Ks.

Also, can anyone find the Queen Elizabeth/Barham's stats in 1941? By stats I mean armament, speed, and anything else that would differ from the 7/1942 version already in WitP..

Thanks a bunch! [:)]

I have little data on Barham. Her refit was the least extensive of any of the Queen Elizabeths. The entire class was refitted similarly in the 1920s but during the 1930s individual ships received differing upgrades. Barham received some extra armor over her magazines, had her aircraft handling equipment upgraded (including a new catapult on X turret), and had her pole mast replaced by a tripod. She received radar (High Angle DCT) and some additional light AA. After the outbreak of the war her single 4in AA guns were replaced by twins and 2 multiple 2pdr and 3 multiple MG were added. She was lost to a submarine in late 1941. At that time:
8 15in (4 x 2)
12 6in (12 x 1)
8 4in (4 x 2)
32 2pdr (4 x 8)
12 50cal (3 x 4)
One Aircraft with one Catapult
24 Kts (maximum)
3425 Tons oil = 4400 nm at 10 Kts


Malaya received a little more work pre-war. Her 4in guns were replaced by twins pre-war and she received an aircraft hanger and a thwartships catapult. One multiple 2pdr and two multiple MG were added pre-war but the MG were removed early in the war and replaced with 16 20mm. Additional changes were made in 1942 but for 1941 I'd estimate:
8 15in (4 x 2)
12 6in (12 x 1)
8 4in (4 x 2)
16 2pdr (2 x 8)
16 20mm (16 x 1)
Three Aircraft with one Catapult
24 Kts (maximum)
3298 Tons oil = 4400 nm at 10 Kts


Warspite was reconstructed during the mid 1930s, receiving new boilers and engines. Unlike the accumulation of changes in the first two ships, Warspite received and balanced and planned upgrade that compensated for weight additions with new, lighter machinery. Her armament was reworked, with increased elevation for the main battery and additions to light AA. Her 16 50cal were replaced by 13 20mm at some time (probably very early in the war) so I'd guess for 1941:
8 15in (4 x 2)
8 6in (8 x 1)
8 4in (4 x 2)
32 2pdr (4 x 8)
13 20mm (13 x 1)
Three Aircraft with one Catapult
25 Kts (maximum)
3501 Tons oil = 7579 nm at 12 kts


Queen Elizabeth and Valiant were reconstructed along the same lines as Warspite but their original secondary and AA armament was completely replaced with a battery of 4.5in DP guns. Apparently both (QE for sure) were still under refit when war broke out in 1939. Queen Elizabeth was not completed until early 1941. At that time:
8 15in (4 x 2)
20 4.5in (10 x 2)
32 2pdr (4 x 8)
16 50cal (4 x 4) - soon replaced with 20mm
Three Aircraft with one Catapult
24 Kts (maximum)
3366 Tons oil = 13,500 nm at 10 kts

[Alikchi2]

Thanks a bunch Don! [:)] Exactly what I was looking for.

Alikchi

[rtrapasso]

Barham
3425 Tons oil = 4400 nm at 10 kts

Malaya
3298 Tons oil = 4400 nm at 10 Kts


Warspite
3501 Tons oil = 7579 nm at 12 kts


Queen Elizabeth and Valiant 3366 Tons oil = 13,500 nm at 10 kts

This seems very odd - a 2 kt difference (between Warspite and QE) shouldn't double your range except maybe at very high speed, and the Malaya and Barham have only about 1/3 the range at the same speed compared to the QE/Valiant. The hull forms would be approximately the same, no? Were the engines that different?

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Barham
3425 Tons oil = 4400 nm at 10 kts

Malaya
3298 Tons oil = 4400 nm at 10 Kts


Warspite
3501 Tons oil = 7579 nm at 12 kts


Queen Elizabeth and Valiant 3366 Tons oil = 13,500 nm at 10 kts

This seems very odd - a 2 kt difference (between Warspite and QE) shouldn't double your range except maybe at very high speed, and the Malaya and Barham have only about 1/3 the range at the same speed compared to the QE/Valiant. The hull forms would be approximately the same, no? Were the engines that different?

My reference (Lenton) does not go into sufficient detail to answer that question. Just "new engines" for the last three. Barham and Malaya had World War I engines/boilers. I have verified that these are the figures in the book - I made no type-os (on this post, at least).

[Hornblower]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Barham
3425 Tons oil = 4400 nm at 10 kts

Malaya
3298 Tons oil = 4400 nm at 10 Kts


Warspite
3501 Tons oil = 7579 nm at 12 kts


Queen Elizabeth and Valiant 3366 Tons oil = 13,500 nm at 10 kts

This seems very odd - a 2 kt difference (between Warspite and QE) shouldn't double your range except maybe at very high speed, and the Malaya and Barham have only about 1/3 the range at the same speed compared to the QE/Valiant. The hull forms would be approximately the same, no? Were the engines that different?

My reference (Lenton) does not go into sufficient detail to answer that question. Just "new engines" for the last three. Barham and Malaya had World War I engines/boilers. I have verified that these are the figures in the book - I made no type-os (on this post, at least).

I think I can lend a hand here. When the QE, Warspite, Valiant went in for there 2nd reconstruction they were re-engineered.
The 24 Babcock & Wilcox boilers were replaced by 8 admiralty 3-drum, and the engines were swapped out for Parsons single reduction geared turbines.

[rtrapasso]

I think I can lend a hand here. When the QE, Warspite, Valiant went in for there 2nd reconstruction they were re-engineered.
The 24 Babcock & Wilcox boilers were replaced by 8 admiralty 3-drum, and the engines were swapped out for Parsons single reduction geared turbines.

OK - that might explain the differences between the older and newer ships.

Still doesn't explain (at least to me) the 50% range reduction at going from 10 to 12 kts.

[Hornblower]

I'm guessing that they might have been more fuel efficient? [8|] Janes states that at cruising speed the 8 Admiralty 3-drum type would burn 2.7 tons of oil per hour. I can’t locate the burn rate of the 24 old babcock’s prior to the re-engine. However the Repulse had 42 of them and at economical speed burned approx 180 tons per day, or 7.5 tons an hour. (So I know this is an educated guess at this point. ) With 57% of the number of boilers as the Repulse it comes out to 4.275 tons an hour. Or 63% more then the 3 drum.

Now when i look at the Perfomance stats for this class in Encycopedia of warships by Lyon, they give 8600nm as the range for Malaya and barham, and 13500nm for the other 3. Which gives the Malaya and Barham 63.7% of the range of there reconstructed sisters. So the numbers seem to work out...

[Alikchi2]

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Thanks again, Don.