Germany turn 1

[Scott_WAR]

This is for people that have played a good bit.

Is there ANY way germany can prevent the WA from landing in Europe on turn 1 or 2?

IF you dont defend france well, you know they will land there. Same for Italy. If you dont take Denamark then into the Baltic they will come, and thats WORSE than letting them get Italy. If west Poland or East Prussia falls, then Russia enters the war. If you take Denmark, you have to defend it, West Germany, North and South Italy, France, and to a lesser extent, the Netherlands. There is absolutely NO WAY to cover all of these, so that a good counterattack is available to every area.
I can load up France that covers france and the netherlands. West Berlin can cover Denmark, BUT I want units in Denmark to op-fire on anything trying to go into the Baltic, But I cant leave West Germany weak either. I have to defend Italy, or 80% of Germany's fleet will just up and vanish if Italy falls. Even if it is already at sea.

So, France, Denmark, North Italy, South Italy West Germany. If Denmark isnt held HEAVILY, then I need to protect East Germany, West Poland, and East Prussia.

So its not really a matter of defending all of them, it cant be done, but more a matter of where do I want to leave weak and allow the WA to land. D-day in 1939. Wow.


I hope I am missing something. I have already looked at a lot of things. Invading Norway and leaving that tiny fleet in that sea zone only ensures that tiny fleet will get destroyed. It can help prevent the WA from getting to the Baltic, but again a focused WA player can still get to and destroy that fleet, just delaying the invasion in the baltics by 1 turn. Not long enough to build enough to protect it, and moving units there only leaves holes elsewhere. As noted earlier I have looked at the strategy of staggering my forces, but in the long run thats a losing strategy.

So any ideas?

[JanSorensen]

Seeing I was the one to invade your Italians and then East Prussia I feel I can safely say that it was simply a matter of misplacement of your troops. In generel I dont find it to be a problem to prevent the WA from doing any worthwhile invasions early on - but leaving only 2 MIL in Northern Italy isnt nearly enough.

That said - I have taken Italy in 1940 in 3 seperate games within the last week - so it seems to be a common mistake to undergarrison Italy for people that havent played against an agressive WA.

That aside - I believe it has already been debated that the WA might have too many unfrozen transports initially - but that as long as the AV ease for the Axis is unfixed its dangerous to lower the number of WA transports.

[Scott_WAR]

Yeah, I think a lot of people dont realize, like I didnt, that the entire Med fleet disappears if Italy is taken. I actually left ITaly like that HOPING the WA would take it, knowing I could crush them with my med fleet. But, alas, that Med fleet turns to vapor for no good reason when Italy falls, even when its already out to sea.

And, I always play with AV off.

But, my point is if I leave enough in Italy to protect against ALL of the transports WA can bring there, Iwill most certainly be open somewhere else, like East Prussia, which effectively ends the game if it falls. Or I can protect both of them, and leve France too weak, or even worse, West Germany too weak. Its the fact that I cant keep the WA out of Europe if they REALLY want to land, they will just find the weak spot.


There is no doubt that I made mistakes in our game Jan, thats not what i am concerned about. Its in looking at HOW i could have prevented what happened, I cant see a way to stop it, IF the WA is intent.


I'll give credit though. It was a great plan, make me commit to kicking the WA out of italy, and then taking East Prussia, making it so that Russia enters on turn 2 of the game.

LOL, the different strategies and learning to watch out for them, and defend against them, and STILL be able to do what YOU have planned....... I guess thats the basis for every good wargame.

Let me be clear, I am not claiming there IS a problem, just that right now it appears to me to be one, but I havent tried enough yet to see if there is an answer to be certain. Thats why I am asking if anyone else has faced an aggressive WA , and has seen or knows something I am overlooking.

[aletoledo]

I've never seen the east prussia invasion yet, sounds interesting.

defending italy is an definite requirement as axis every game now. I think everyone is aware of its vulnerability on turn one. a single artillery piece will stop any attack cold, so the danger comes from the carrier planes destroying that artillery. two AA are thus required in each region on turn one.

I've never thought about an attack on east prussia before, but I suppose many times I'm building up for a russian attack anyway (so defending it at the same time). again all I would imagine a good defense would require is an AA and an artillery. I don't think both carriers can make it to east prussia so only a single AA would be required to defend the artillery.

[Scott_WAR]

Heh, it WAS good move. He pulled the shim-sham on me. He took Italy, and held it with around 9 assorted units,...infantry, arti and flak. Naturally, I loaded up Austri, to prevent him form going any deeper into europe. No matter where those troops tried to go, except for OUT of Europe, I would be able to kill them. Now, I called off my planned attack on Spain, and made sure I had West Germany, East Germany, and France defended, in additon to the attack force in Austria. As you can imagine, This pretty much took everything I had unit wise.

So, he destroys the units in Denmark, kills my Baltic Fleet, then lands around 6 units in East Prussia. I had mistakenly took the 3 infantry in West Poland and moved them to austria, replacing them with militia, so had NO counter attack on East Prussia at all.
Its not a good feeling to suddenly realize, you have lost on the 2nd turn of the game. [8|]


Edit- the attack on east Prussia was on turn 2, so he COULD have used the carriers CAG there, but I left it wide open (1 militia) in my concern to deal with the Italy invasion, so he didnt need them.

2 mistakes I made caused this, BUT thats not exactly what I am talking about.


These 2 particular territories(N. Italy and E. Prussia) are VERY important to defend, obviously, but if you defend them well enough, do you have enough left over to defend france, and the netherlands, and West Germany. I can already see, my usual strategy of attacking Spain, then Girbralter is completely over now. How can I attack , and hold EVEN more ground, if I am uncertain about defending my homeland and France?



As I said earlier, give credit where it is due. One very good plan, and two very bad mistakes.

[JanSorensen]

A few items.

WGermany mostly defends itself - the 5 MIL that pop up go well towards deterring an English invasion imho.
Denmark is where you defend East Prussia - art/aa/ftr/inf imo.
France defends itself on turn one as the 5-7 panzars are standing right on the beach.
Netherlands defend itself from the force that took it.
That leaves Italy to defend.

The Italian Fleet could not dislogde the English Navy from the Central Med even if not scuttled when Italy surrenders. Mind that it takes 2:1 in fleets to force a retreat AND the English have more ships.

You wouldnt likely catch my BEF ashore regardless. If it had invaded in a spot where it could get killed I would simply have evacuated them at the end of my turn (after forcing the surrender and destroying the factories) - thats what I did in my other games. That would still leave the transports at sea ofcourse - but the BEF would be ready to fight another day.

Lastly - RTFM - it does pay off to read the manual I find. Further, it pays off hugely to test any ideas simply by playing all 5 major powers and setting up the scenario in question. I know it has stopped me from doing some of the most silly things I would otherwise have attempted

[Joel Billings]

I usually have at least 8 units in Northern Italy on turn 1, and am always building at least 1 new miltia there a turn. In Denmark, I usually have 1 fighter and 1 bomber (moved there after it attacks France. Later, I try to keep 2 fighters there. They are cheap, and as long as Allied fighters can't hit Denmark, they will likely survive to Op fire at transports which is usually enough to keep the WA away. I usually sail the Italian fleet on turn on into the central Med with aircover, which might ultimately end up with them dead, but at least the they'll go down fighting, and it's no guarantee the WA can push them out. If they look like they can last, it allows a smaller garrison of Southern Italy. Denmark and Northern Italy must be held IMHO (keep in mind Northern Italy is a fort).

[Scott_WAR]

Yeah, Jan, playing around, I have come to close to that. The 5 milita I did not know about for W. Germany, so that REALLY helps. Also moving the med fleet so that the WA have to fight it to attack Italy also helps. As Joel said, even if they die, they inflict a good bit of damage, enough so that the WA may decide against the attack.


Really, the 5 militia, change everything.

Edit- I have the DD version of the game, and my printer quit on me, so I havent printed a manual. I have read it a couple of times, but it seems that reading it off of a monitor doesnt sink in as well as having a book in front of you.

[Scott_WAR]

Update. Figured it out. The 5 militia in West Germany if its attacked makes a huge difference, plus KNOWING that italy fleets dissappears if Italy falls, and that IT CAN fall very easily if extra reinforcements arent moved there.