Laying mines in-game : must purchase?

generalrichmond · Post by **generalrichmond** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 5:33 pm

So as I have yet to get my '39 Russie engineers to actually *lay* the mines I've bought, I have the question:

Is it necessary to purchase mines in the purchase screen in order for your engineers to lay them during the game? I would imagine so, but am just asking in case there is some inherent 'supply' that engineers have that they can source on their own.

Other question - must the engineers be in an 'Advance' stance to lay the mines? In fact, will they do any work in a 'Defend' mode?

TIA

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 5:53 pm

Purchased mines are laid ONLY during the deployment phase. There is an icon for it on the right someplace.

Engineers will slowly lay "free" mines during the game. Right click on the engineer and there is a line just below the advance/defend toggle that will allow the engineers to lay mines. I think the default is "clear mines". I also think they onlu lay mines if stationary.

Hope this helps. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 6:14 pm

I believe the engineers must be free of supression also. they can also be set to remove mines or not to remove mines.

Resisti · Post by **Resisti** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 6:28 pm

Confirm all what above.
In addition, pay attention to your engineers' facing.
They will lay mines in the hex they are facing toward,infact.
It's a typical error to get one of yr engineers lay mines BEHIND him and to see him blow up on his own mines when retreating as a combat result <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

IKerensky · Post by **IKerensky** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 6:37 pm

Another common blunder is to forgot you have given thsi order and have your engineer laying mine in the hex of your others units , really creeping thing. Also the funny mistake is to stack engeneer so they lay mines faster but forget to put one from clear to lay , doooh

challenge · Post by **challenge** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 6:50 pm

My engineers are slackers; the only one who seems to place anything is the platoon leader's squad, the rest just sit and use them for frizbees I guess.

Mikimoto · Post by **Mikimoto** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 6:55 pm

Originally posted by Challenge:
My engineers are slackers; the only one who seems to place anything is the platoon leader's squad, the rest just sit and use them for frizbees I guess.

Hi.

You must order to lay/remove mines individually for each unit. It works for the whole unit only to set fire ranges, not for mine remotal/lying.

Another common mistake is to buy mines in delay/defend scenario. You deploy your units and mines... you put mines in front of your units... some of your units are engineers... By default they have "remove mines in front of your unit"... and they beging to destroy your defensive minecamps... <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Mikimoto · Post by **Mikimoto** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 7:06 pm

Ooops sorry.

It must say: "You must order to lay/remove mines individually for each SQUAD. It works for the whole PLATOON only to set fire ranges, not for mine remotal/lying."

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 8:40 pm

From what I've seen, I would find that an offensive mission, if any, would be the one that may not allow engineers to lay mines. I definitely have no problem laying mines in defensive missions, and I suspect that mines can be laid anytime, assuming you have the settings correct and the units aren't too highly suppressed or too lowly experienced (which could be part of a problem for early Soviet engineers). I've never studied mine-laying closely enough to tell you whether the experience played a very large factor or not, but you would figure it would (number of men in the platoon should matter a good deal as well). In any case, I've had platoons during the first 15 turns or so, lay as many as 10 mines, while I've had others that didn't lay a single one the entire time. We're talking engineers from the same platoon here, who don't vary in experience very much, which leads me to believe that the highest factor as to whether mines are laid or not, is a random one.

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: Charles_22 ]</p>

ruxius · Post by **ruxius** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 9:49 pm

It seems they have no limits in laying down mines
according to all parameters (suppression , experience ,ecc.ecc) but I think that a limit should be fixed if we do not want any relationship with purchasing mines (me too I confirm engineers can lay down mines without having purchased them at all)

madflava13 · Post by **madflava13** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 12:04 am

I haven't done any tests, but its been my experience that more elite engineers tend to lay mines faster...In the campaign I'm currently playing I seem to see results in a turn or two as opposed to multiple turns with nothing in the early battles.

generalrichmond · Post by **generalrichmond** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 1:35 am

Wow, to lay a mine must really hurt... hehe

Seriously, I guess barbwire must be set before the game starts, eh? That makes sense..

junksneek3 · Post by **junksneek3** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 3:29 am

i always wondered why barb-wire when you can mine?

john g · Post by **john g** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 4:11 am

Originally posted by junksneek3:
i always wondered why barb-wire when you can mine?

For the same reason that you use wire for real. Barb wire doesn't kill your own men when you cross it. It slows down the enemy when they are in it so you can fire on them, yet it doesn't kill you when you advance back over the same ground to counterattack.
thanks, John.

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 4:48 am

Also, just because a hex is mined doesn't mean that it will stop infantry. Often the infantry move right over only to have the unsuspecting tank unpleasantly suprised. <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> Even light vehicles may cross a mined hex.

Capt. Pixel · Post by **Capt. Pixel** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 5:00 am

Here's one for the books - (ver 6.1)
I was defending with USMC against a beach assault by the Japanese. I had pre-deployed a two hex strip of mines and obstacles along the beach. 20 mines in the first strip and 10 AT obstacles and 10 wire in the second strip. Behind that were USMC Engineers about every 2-3 hexes, set to lay mines in the AT/Wire hexes.

Instead of adding 1-2 mines in the AT/Wire hexes, they removed 3 each of the AT obstacles and wire and layed 7 <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> additional mines in those hexes. (that makes 7 each of AT obstacles, wire and mines!)

Not that I was complaining, mind you, but it wasn't what I was expecting to happen. Kind of a weird result.... Makes me wonder if there's a limit for multiple obstacles in a hex?

john g · Post by **john g** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 5:56 am

Originally posted by Capt. Pixel:
Here's one for the books - (ver 6.1)
I was defending with USMC against a beach assault by the Japanese. I had pre-deployed a two hex strip of mines and obstacles along the beach. 20 mines in the first strip and 10 AT obstacles and 10 wire in the second strip. Behind that were USMC Engineers about every 2-3 hexes, set to lay mines in the AT/Wire hexes.

Instead of adding 1-2 mines in the AT/Wire hexes, they removed 3 each of the AT obstacles and wire and layed 7 <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> additional mines in those hexes. (that makes 7 each of AT obstacles, wire and mines!)

Not that I was complaining, mind you, but it wasn't what I was expecting to happen. Kind of a weird result.... Makes me wonder if there's a limit for multiple obstacles in a hex?

If there are multiple obstacles in a hex, they even out, if you have 40 dt and add wire it changes to 25 dt and 25 wire. If you have 30 wire, add 10 dt it changes to 20/20 if you then add 10 mines it changes to 16/16/16.

There is a top limit of 50 total in any hex.
thanks, John.

[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: john g ]</p>

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 6:59 am

Yes, you can drive +20 tanks over a mined roadhex and mines don't explode. And next time you don't take mines so seriously and they'll explode each time. I like this is ok as one hex is 50X50 yards (or meters,) and 50 mines in that area is not covering whole area.

mosh

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 4:31 pm

Capt. Pixel: What went wrong? Stuff was deleted by the engineer, because you had the engineer with the wrong task assigned them. There are three engineer functions: 1)Remove mines 2)Create mines 3)Don't remove mines

Obviously you didn't change the default from 'remove mines', something which has to be changed for each unit. I've never tried putting infantry into the same hex with a mine, because they normally clear them with no option, so I would think they would clear your own mines as well, since apparently the engineers will clear their own. No, let me think about that. From what I recall engineers WILL NOT clear their own mines, but they might clear purchased mines, which sounds likw what you ran into, you didn't change their default role of clearing mines.

James P · Post by **James P** » Thu Oct 25, 2001 4:37 pm

Originally posted by Charles_22:
From what I've seen, I would find that an offensive mission, if any, would be the one that may not allow engineers to lay mines. I definitely have no problem laying mines in defensive missions, and I suspect that mines can be laid anytime, assuming you have the settings correct and the units aren't too highly suppressed or too lowly experienced (which could be part of a problem for early Soviet engineers). I've never studied mine-laying closely enough to tell you whether the experience played a very large factor or not, but you would figure it would (number of men in the platoon should matter a good deal as well). In any case, I've had platoons during the first 15 turns or so, lay as many as 10 mines, while I've had others that didn't lay a single one the entire time. We're talking engineers from the same platoon here, who don't vary in experience very much, which leads me to believe that the highest factor as to whether mines are laid or not, is a random one.

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: Charles_22 ]

The only problem I have with the way SPWaW handles engineers laying mines "mid" game, is that the hexes always seem to display the skull and cross bones icon, which wastes the tactical advantage of mining an area in a meeting battle.