I play OOTP - how does this compare??

[diesel7013]

Like I said above - I play OOTP - I LOVE it - the ability to play careers, single seasons - w/ or w/o salary caps ect...

Anyway - what do the people who have played both games think of both of them? How do they compare? How quickly can you sim a season - which has more depth and statistical data?

Thanks!

[HercMighty]

I hadn't heard of this game and had been looking into OOTP, was going to wait till they released the next version with next season, but saw this and am also very curious as to what people have to say.

[CPTBrown]

I'm also a dedicated Out of the Park Baseball player. I own World at War (a fantastic Matrix release) and saw Puresim on their site. VERY interested...

[DandricSturm]

I've owned three or four versions of OOTP including 5 and 6. I've owned probably every version of PureSim. Like any simulations each has strong points and weak points. I personaly like the "feel" of PureSim over OOTP. I don't think it makes much sense to say that one or the other is "better." Each is different and ultimately is going to come down to personal preference.

And, oh yeah...Fly Army!

[Beach23BoyP]

I've owned OOTP since version 3.2 and I've owned PureSim since early, early beta. While OOTP is a very good baseball sim, I much prefer PureSim.

[Abev]

I agree with Beach and Dandric. PureSim to me is more real life immersive. OOTP seems "arcadey" to me. Alot of people like that tho. I couldnt play OOTP, I was waiting for Mr Met to do the pepsi t shirt launch .

No disrespect to OOTP. PureSim to me is much more "GM" detail driven. I am serious about my sims. Big difference too when the developer lets the users be involved int he direction of the sim.

[FBPro]

It's like any game of the same genre, some think game X is better and other swear that Y is the best. I personally MUCH perfer OOTP feeling it is superior to PS in many ways, but I have also purchased several versions of PS. It's a good game just doesn't DO IT for me.

[DandricSturm]

ORIGINAL: diesel7013

Like I said above - I play OOTP - I LOVE it - the ability to play careers, single seasons - w/ or w/o salary caps ect...

Anyway - what do the people who have played both games think of both of them? How do they compare? How quickly can you sim a season - which has more depth and statistical data?

Thanks!

How quickly you can sim a season varies of course. I just simmed a season for a sixteen team league in about twenty-four minutes but I was not using the fastest simming method which doesn't display standings etc. during the sim.

[lynchjm24]

I think the answer here for the people who haven't tried to game is to grab the demo when it's released. I like both games - but I've really lately spent much more time on Puresim when it comes to solo play, and OOTP with respect to multi-player leagues.

I know I've said it plenty of times (even if those posts are gone), but there is no reason why you can't like and support and enjoy multiple games it doesn't have to be one or the other. It's not like a rap war... you aren't going to be killed for rolling with Puresim or OOTP.

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: lynchjm24

I know I've said it plenty of times (even if those posts are gone), but there is no reason why you can't like and support and enjoy multiple games it doesn't have to be one or the other. It's not like a rap war... you aren't going to be killed for rolling with Puresim or OOTP.

Sometimes it's hard to convince fan boys of this however! [;)]

I've been playing OOTP since version 3 and am quite satisfied. It does do some weird things statistically, particularly if you have the game engine set to the defaults. I still like it though and feel like it's continually improved. They should have a new version out next year which looks great. Still, I also love Matrix Games and to see them pick up PureSim is IMO quite an endorsement. I'll definitely pick up the demo of this however and purchase it if I like what I see. Then I'll just have two baseball sims on my computer as opposed to one. That sounds good to me. [8D]

[JonnieR]

I own both OOTP and Puresim (as well as Diamond Mind). There are many similarities between the various titles, but of the three, PureSim seems to draw me in and immerse me in the game better than the other two. Somehow the interface and design of PureSim has an almost intangible appeal that the others do not have.

[HoschMosch]

Sorry to say that but in terms of a realistic game engine (in my opinion the most importent part of a game) Ootp is not perfect but Pursim is still miles behind.

HoschMosch

[Paul Vebber]

Having played both - my take is the following:

OOTP is better at "simming" large numbers of games and producing carrer stats and progression over time - the new engine has fixed a lot of what I thought were issues in consistnency in past versions (ie good players tend to "stay good" over time rather sine wave up and down with a general upward slope.

If you are a "pure stathead" (A term of endearment be sure) then I agree that OOTP is still a ways ahead of Puresim "over the years". I think the finacials are a bit more balanced over time in OOTp from an owner point of view.

Where PureSim shines to me is as manager/GM where you 'manage" most of your games. THe "in game experience" of OOTP just seems "sterile" and the games don't seem to get "the right flow".

A matter of taste to be sure, but I have MUCH more fun magaging a PureSim game than I do managing an OOTP game. The little "ball path" thing adds a lot, but it just seems to 'feel more like real baseball'.

ITs VERY important to us to hear from OOTP players what they like "better" about that game - not that everybodies desires can be met - that always ends up with NOBODY being happy, but to understand the respective "niches" the audience of teh two games fit into and add features where it makes sense to broaden the niche to encompass more of what OOTP players like, but also to better understand teh niche PureSIm fans fallinto and further play to the games strengths to improve their play experience.

So PLEASE continue to present and debate teh strengths and weaknesses of teh two games (and the others) and what YOU as a baseball simmer think still needs to be done.

As I told Shaun, my love is managing and GM'ing and I would like to see more "player character" worked into the game where I feel more of the tensions as a manager and GM aseembling and keeping my team together, bringing prosects and "old farts" up and down, dealing with player rivalries and team rivalries, so its more than just "juggling stats". I don't want to be able to win with linear programming!

I think this plays to teh niche Puresim is good at - let us know what you think!

[HoschMosch]

I don´t know, if I play a sport-text sim game the most importent part for me is the Game-Engine and the results. It is nice to see the path of the ball but to know that "behind the scene" it is just random is nothing for me.

HoschMosch

[puresimmer]

Whoa,

I hope you don't mean its random in PureSim? The stats engine in PureSim is incredibly detailed and is the product of 5 years of fine tuning. Every pitch of every at bat is simmed, weather, fatigue, player ratings and many other factors greatly influence the outcome of every play.

If you are a real geek you can actually change the engine yourself with the included (and well documented) puresim.xml file. Those tweaks can be redistributed to other users so they can play with say a "deadball" version of the engine.

Be sure to download PureSim 2005 Gold Edition when it becomes available.

[Paul Vebber]

I certainly hope my comment didn't get taken that way...

My point is that a game engine that produces rigorous "results over time" might not be the sort of engine that actually recreates a game that well - relying on "things averaging out" rather than occuring in a sequence during a game that is exciting and compelling and ANYTHING but random!

To me Puresim is more like watching a real game via www.mlb.com - with the advantage that MY MANAGEMENT decisions can prove decisive. That to me is "more fun" and more immersive, than a game that is a bit beeter at producing results over 10 years of playing.

Seeing where the ball tends to go is important to adjusting your fielding strategy. In OOTP its purely "situational" since you are not sure where the balls have actually gone. That is far more than just "eye candy" to me. I hope that aspect of teh game can be improved in the future to shore player tendencies and where balls have gone in the game. in Puresim you get a feel for if your pitcher is giving up a lot balls to lefthanded batters down the 3rd base line and such. ou get to try to "play the odds " on several levels.

That is not to say either that Puresim is "deficient" in that - I just think it may be one of those "decision conundrums" that an engine tweaked one way, may have issues at the other end, and vice versa.

In my real work I run up against that al the time - where a model that gets a SEQUENCE OF EVENTS to occur in "realistic" manner, often has trupble with long term statisitics - Its a "fundamental statistics" issue not just a baseball issue!

[HoschMosch]

I see "Hit_into_an_Out" and the describtion "You can really move batting avgs up and down by making significant changes to this number". Sorry, but in my book that is not realistic. And I don´t think Pursim is based on DIPS? L/R splits?

Please don´t get me wrong, I think you do a great job and I know how hard it is to have a job and work on a project like this. But I think it is better to describe the way a game works then just to write "The stats engine in PureSim is incredibly detailed [...]." Because good looking stats are not necessary a hint for a realistic (in a way the reality works) game engine.

Again, just my opinion.

HoschMosch

[Abev]

I am not sure about the 'game engine' of OOTP; I played it for a few days and just couldnt get into it. As far as PS goes, I can't see how it could be miles behind anything. Statistics, game results, game outcomes are all the absolute last things I would fix with PS. Then again, you cant set the price of a hot dog.

[Paul Vebber]

You can really move batting avgs up and down by making significant changes to this number". Sorry, but in my book that is not realistic.

LIke I said - there are those guys who want to know the exact manner in which the engine computes the outcome of a pitch.

I'm more "effects based" - if the game portrays teh "EFFECT of my decisions and gives me the "feel" that draws me in - I'm happy.

That "detail" vs "effect" bias is there in wargaming as well.

IN some ways "knowing to much of what goes on under teh hood" can spoil the "willing suspension of disbelief".

That goes to the idea of trying to understand the "niches" in teh market, and which to focus on satisfying.

I don't know the correct answer, I'm just providing my opinion as 1 gamer and appreciate hearing others!

[galaril]

ORIGINAL: HoschMosch

I see "Hit_into_an_Out" and the describtion "You can really move batting avgs up and down by making significant changes to this number". Sorry, but in my book that is not realistic. And I don´t think Pursim is based on DIPS? L/R splits?

Please don´t get me wrong, I think you do a great job and I know how hard it is to have a job and work on a project like this. But I think it is better to describe the way a game works then just to write "The stats engine in PureSim is incredibly detailed [...]." Because good looking stats are not necessary a hint for a realistic (in a way the reality works) game engine.

Again, just my opinion.

HoschMosch

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