Anyone but me...

[Sonny]

manage the game? Or do most folks just crank out the stats?

[KG Erwin]

You're not alone. I manage each game of my human-controlled team.

[Sonny]

Just wondering because no one seems to complain about the horrible base running and lack of realistic handling of errors.

A lot of work has gone into this game and it is ashame that some of the most basic things in the game of baseball itself are screwed up.

[donkuchi19]

I do all three. I manage one league. I have another league where I sim. I have a third league (ABF) that is multiplayer. I do notice some errors in the managed game aspect that I posted on the old boards. The stolen base error with the count being number one. I still find that it is the most enjoyable sim out there for managing a game.

[Sonny]

Well I have not played any of the others (except APBA long time ago) but it really ruins a game when there are two out and you pinch run with a 53 speed guy and there is a fly ball to deep right field and the fielder drops it and you end up with runners on first and second when you should have scored a run and had a runner on second.

I just downloaded it and have only managed 60 or so games but I have already twice seen 5-6-3 double plays! How many you see of those in the majors? Seen wild pitches but no passed balls (though I may have missed them I doubt it). Don't ever remember seeing a batter hit by a pitch either.

And even though it is minor, the special plays say something like "fielder steals a hit from the batter" (or something to that effect) but the "fly ball turns into a homerun" really irks me. How did it turn into a homerun? Did the outfielder have it hit off his glove and go over the fence? Did the wind carry it over the fence? Minor, as I said but it ruins the atmosphere of the game.

Another minor one - who makes the catch when there is a flyout to left center or right center? With all the names on the screen it should be easy to put a name in that play result as well as replacing SS or 3B etc with a name.

[Frozen Stiffer]

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I'm currently participating, in one form or another, in five associations: The first is a fictional league where I manage each and every game. The second is also a fictional league but I sim games in weekly increments. The third is a real-player sandbox-mode league I put together where I'm competing with the last 10 winners of the World Series ('95 Atlanta through '04 Boston); these games are simmed in weekly chunks. The fourth and fifth associations I am playing are both multiplayer; one is Shaun's PureSim association test game and the other is Dandric's 1956-era, real-player MP association.

I have a few quirks in regards to managed games, but as donkuchi, I've posted commentary about them before. I'd feel like a stubborn pain were I to repeat them in detail so I'll just summarize my two cents. The wild pitch counts on steals, having one of your hitters "thrown out on the extra base attempt" (which you had no say on whether he should try it or not), being able to swap out the starting pitcher at the lineup card stage, the inability to see fatigue levels unless you initiate a change in the lineup card, "real-time" updated ERAs for the pitchers- just as the batter's AVG are updated with each at-bat, the lack of any note or comment when you send in a pinch-runner or pinch-hitter (it doesn't even say it on the Game Summary) and the lack of a Steal {A]ll command where you can have all the runners going on the next pitch. I've seen wild pitches, but no hit batters or passed balls.

Two things have been getting to me lately; one is the AI's base running strategy. If I were to hit a ground ball to the third baseman and I had a runner on 2nd, I would NOT have him advance to third. Yet, the opponent does, and often makes it there. Too many times have I seen balls lined to the same base where a runner is sent, and almost always makes it safely. The other frustrating thing is those hits that 'get by the pitcher'. The animation line doesn't leave the infield, so it's not a ball that's "hit up the middle". How often is a ball hit "out of reach of the pitcher"? I could be missing something obvious, and if I am, please point it out.

However, please do not take this as an overall dislike or disappointment in PureSim. I absolutely love this game to the point that I'm finding myself playing this more than MVP 2005. Even with these minor annoyances, the positive components and entertaining features of this Spawn of Shaun so ridiculously outweigh these inconveniences that I feel guilty when I type these things out and click on 'Post Reply'. I only do it because I know that Shaun appreciates the feedback, even when he (hopefully) knows that we don't expect him to make this to each and every person's liking and taste. Feedback is a suggestion, it's not an order or command.

Keep it up Shaun, I love this work of baseball art.

[puresimmer]

Actually I have thrived upon feedback since day 1! Take a look at readme.html in your puresim 2005\html folder. That file shows all the changes I have made since just December. I log every suggestion. Keem them coming.

The one thing I do ask is that you all be as specific as possible in your requests, that way I can log them and knock em out.

Above all I hope you all agree PureSim 2005 is certainly a good value.

[Frozen Stiffer]

That certainly helps wipe away some of the rant-inspired guilt I manage to accumulate, I must say.

The only thing that I find to be an issue when sharing feedback, comments, suggestions or complaints, is that I (personally) tend to spread my suggestions around- as in, on many different posts and threads. I certainly don't expect personalized attention and I don't expect to receive private emails from Shaun addressing and commenting on each and every suggestion I make. However, I just don't know if what I'm saying (since I'm saying it often and in many places) is at least being 'read' or 'acknowledged'. Whether you agree with my suggestion or disagree with it is irrelevant; you're free to do as you wish, since when it all boils down, this is your game.

However, the part where I "feel like a stubborn pain [in the a$$]" is because, not knowing if you caught some little comment in some obscure post some several threads ago, I find myself reposting suggestions. This, to me, makes me sound like a whiney brat. This, to me, makes it sound like I don't like PSB2005, which is one reason I always try to end my comment-filled posts on a good note.

So, how can I share my suggestions, etc. in a way that they'll at least be acknowledged (which is all that I ask, really) without sounding like I'm desperately looking for the slightest little tiny fault as some sort of bizarre fun-crushing treat?

[&:]

[Sonny]

The other frustrating thing is those hits that 'get by the pitcher'. The animation line doesn't leave the infield, so it's not a ball that's "hit up the middle". How often is a ball hit "out of reach of the pitcher"? I could be missing something obvious, and if I am, please point it out.

I can understand a high bouncer getting past the pitcher or the pitcher flagging the ball down and not getting to it in time to throw the runner out but I was really surprised when I saw a DOUBLE out of reach of the pitcher![X(] I've only seen one of those and I can use my imagination to rationalize it so it is not a big deal - just a surprise.

My complaint/observation is that there is a lot of neat stuff but why worry about players retiring in the middle of a season and some such esoteric (though nice) stuff when no infielder in my games has overthrown first base? Get the basics of the game of baseball correct and build from there.

[Sonny]

Found another weird happening last night:

Runners on first and third, one out, infield playing IN.
Grounded to first base - the runner on third beats the throw home - runner on first moves to second.

You would expect to see runners on first and second with one out. Nope. Runner on second and one out! What happened to the batter?[&:][&:]

[Amaroq]

Hmm, I can imagine that play in one of three ways.

Hard grounder to a good-fielding first-baseman. He takes the moment to step on first, retiring the batter, and then fires home; the act of stepping on first delayed him just enough to allow the runner from third to score.

Hard grounder to the first-baseman. He throws home, but the runner from third slides in under the tag. The slow-running batter doesn't get down the line quickly enough, and the catcher alertly turns and throws him out to the second baseman covering first.

Hard grounder to a poor-throwing first-baseman. His throw is clearly off line, forcing the catcher to take it from a standing position several feet up the third base line. Knowing he has no chance on the runner, the catcher alertly guns it to first to get even a fast-moving batter.

But then, I've read too many descriptions of "odd plays" over at retrosheet... [:)] ... which if you haven't seen, and you're a baseball sim fan, will make any baseball sim's outcome feel like a routine play: Retrosheet.org: Strange and Unusual Plays

[HoschMosch]

Then it should be 2 Outs. So I would imagine another play:

Everyone watched the close play at homeplate and Aliens took away the batter.

HoschMosch

ORIGINAL: Amaroq

Hmm, I can imagine that play in one of three ways.

Hard grounder to a good-fielding first-baseman. He takes the moment to step on first, retiring the batter, and then fires home; the act of stepping on first delayed him just enough to allow the runner from third to score.

Hard grounder to the first-baseman. He throws home, but the runner from third slides in under the tag. The slow-running batter doesn't get down the line quickly enough, and the catcher alertly turns and throws him out to the second baseman covering first.

Hard grounder to a poor-throwing first-baseman. His throw is clearly off line, forcing the catcher to take it from a standing position several feet up the third base line. Knowing he has no chance on the runner, the catcher alertly guns it to first to get even a fast-moving batter.

But then, I've read too many descriptions of "odd plays" over at retrosheet... [:)] ... which if you haven't seen, and you're a baseball sim fan, will make any baseball sim's outcome feel like a routine play: Retrosheet.org: Strange and Unusual Plays

[Amaroq]

Oh! Yeah, that would be a bug.

How's this - it was a close play at home, which the batter just stood and watched. Realizing that he was dead to rights if he tried to run it out, he calmly walked back to the dugout. No umpire called him out, and the other team's pitcher stepped on the rubber to throw the next pitch - and the inning continued with the runner on second and still one out?

[Sonny]

ORIGINAL: Amaroq

Oh! Yeah, that would be a bug.

How's this - it was a close play at home, which the batter just stood and watched. Realizing that he was dead to rights if he tried to run it out, he calmly walked back to the dugout. No umpire called him out, and the other team's pitcher stepped on the rubber to throw the next pitch - and the inning continued with the runner on second and still one out?

Thats probably it.[:D]

[puresimmer]

Found another weird happening last night:

Runners on first and third, one out, infield playing IN.
Grounded to first base - the runner on third beats the throw home - runner on first moves to second

Found it and fixed it, thanks for the report! It was a tough one because in that situation the bug would only happen 30% of the time

Anyway it'll be fixed in the release.

[Sonny]

ORIGINAL: puresimmer

Found another weird happening last night:

Runners on first and third, one out, infield playing IN.
Grounded to first base - the runner on third beats the throw home - runner on first moves to second

Found it and fixed it, thanks for the report! It was a tough one because in that situation the bug would only happen 30% of the time

Anyway it'll be fixed in the release.

Good work! Glad you found it. Those bugs which don't happen consistantly are the hardest to find.

Here is one which does not affect play - foul out down the right line (the ball path goes to the bend in the stands where the foul line meets the warning track) put out SS! It must have been a really high pop or extremely fast shortstop!

Another type which leaves me stretching my imagination is the - double in the hole and double to shallow center.

BTW - do any runners advance on foul outs? I have had one or two foul outs deep down the lines and the runners have never been offered the opportunity to advance.

[El_Homo]

ORIGINAL: Sonny
Here is one which does not affect play - foul out down the right line (the ball path goes to the bend in the stands where the foul line meets the warning track) put out SS! It must have been a really high pop or extremely fast shortstop!

Another type which leaves me stretching my imagination is the - double in the hole and double to shallow center.

Is it possible that the type of BIP (1B, 2B, 3B or Out) is determined before the location of the ball and the defender is determined?

El_Homo

[Sonny]

ORIGINAL: El_Homo

ORIGINAL: Sonny
Here is one which does not affect play - foul out down the right line (the ball path goes to the bend in the stands where the foul line meets the warning track) put out SS! It must have been a really high pop or extremely fast shortstop!

Another type which leaves me stretching my imagination is the - double in the hole and double to shallow center.

Is it possible that the type of BIP (1B, 2B, 3B or Out) is determined before the location of the ball and the defender is determined?

El_Homo

For the most part they are reasonable. Just a few of these strange ones.

[Sonny]

Found another one.

First and third no outs infield IN. The hit-and-run is on. Grounded to the third baseman who throws the runner out at the plate. You would expect runners on first and second - possibly first and third. Well, it turned out that indeed there were runners at first and third - the same ones which were there when the play started! And the batter is nowhere to be seen. It appears this may be similar to the one I mentioned before (which will be fixed in the next release). The difference is that the out was recorded in this one and the runner who was out did not appear on the same base as happened in this case.

[puresimmer]

Found another one.

First and third no outs infield IN. The hit-and-run is on. Grounded to the third baseman who throws the runner out at the plate. You would expect runners on first and second - possibly first and third. Well, it turned out that indeed there were runners at first and third - the same ones which were there when the play started! And the batter is nowhere to be seen. It appears this may be similar to the one I mentioned before (which will be fixed in the next release). The difference is that the out was recorded in this one and the runner who was out did not appear on the same base as happened in this case.

Good news, this is essentially in the same code as the first one and thus was fixed as well.