Japanese pilot replacement at start pool

[Twotribes]

If one assumes the pool and replacement rates are to small for the Japanese what are reasonable numbers that wont unbalance the battle and be closer to correct?

I havent ever played PBEM, so this is mostly in regards the AI.

[Bradley7735]

Twotribes,

I adjust the rates for my games vs the AI. I usually double the replacement rates. (60 and 30). What that does is put off the degredation of the Japanese air force from march 42 to about July 42.

I've been thinking that it'd be ok (vs the AI) to change them much higher, though. Once they start to run out of trained pilots AND the allies get good planes, the game quickly becomes one sided.

In my next AI game, I'll adjust the numbers to probably 200 and 100. Maybe even higher.

Against a human, I think the rates should both be zero. (but the Japanese player should also get some training daitais to use for pilot training)

[mogami]

Hi, Do not assume the replacements rates and starting pool are too low. They may in fact be too high. I have posted on this subject multiple times.
All new Japanese airgroups arrive on map with trained pilots. (Just count the number of pilots contained in groups arrving after Dec 7 1941 and you will see the Japanese player gets a considerable number of "free" trained pilots. Add the 10 per month for 46 months. All these pilots are free. Japan in WWII did not get "free" pilots.
In addition the Japanese player can train on map. Even assuming the 90 day waiting period if Japan disbands a few groups in Dec 41 they will return by April 42 and be trained by July 42. From April 42 to end of war the Japanese player will always have pilots in training this is the "historic" Japanese pilot training program. The number of pilots Japan trains is not predetirmined it is up to the Japanese player.

Both the starting pool and trained pilots added to pool per month are not intended to represent the Japanese pilot training pool they are simply a small part added because it is not practicable to train many types of pilots and then disband the training formations into an active group (floatplanes, recon, transport groups require access to trained replacements. It is acknowledged that players instead use untrained in these groups and put the trained pilots from pool into combat groups. That is also their choice. The 100 pilots in pool at start and the 10 per month trained are not intended to maintain Japanese combat groups.

[Twotribes]

I understand that when playing a Human it probably doesnt matter. But the AI is not going to train pilots. Against the AI what would be a good number to make them a little more competative longer?

[mogami]

Hi, The AI trains pilots. It trains entire groups. It also does not transfer groups from restricted HQ so Home aIslands will have trained groups when you get there.

The natural course of war is Japanese pilot degradation. without it the Allies cannot advance. (Try landing on a base within range of 1000 Japanese aircraft when the pilots are still good)
One of the things the Allied player must do is wear out Japanese airforces. (shoot them down faster then they can replace pilots)
So just use your normal monthly loss rates and add 100. (if against AI your shooting down 600 Japanese per month make the pool 700 per month) Japan should then hold you off forever. (If they don't wipe you out)

[Mike Solli]

Mogami, you just keep giving the Allies bright ideas. I think you really are going to the light side.[X(][:(]

[pad152]

The number of Japanese Naval replacement pilots, don't even cover the non-combat losses. There are also a number of Naval float plane groups that will eat up your replacement pilots to fill out the groups. When playing the against the AI I recomend increasing naval pilot replacement to 50 or 60 per month.

[Brady]

cough...

[WhoCares]

ORIGINAL: Mogami
...
So just use your normal monthly loss rates and add 100. (if against AI your shooting down 600 Japanese per month make the pool 700 per month) Japan should then hold you off forever. (If they don't wipe you out)

Except that the replacements become more and more crap over the years...

[Mike Solli]

You're confusing pilot replacements with air unit reinforcements. Naval pilot replacements are always 70 +9 and Army pilots are always 55 +9. It's the air reinforcements that (for the Japanese) decrease in starting experience over time.

[Nikademus]

I'm finding that an initial pool of 1000 pilots is working well for the IJN though I recently cut the replacement rate in half down to 25 pilots per month. By mid 42 after moderate attrition the pool was down to 50%. Even after 1.5 month's of reletively light activity, that pool is still @ 50%. With the replacement rate reduction it will probably cut the theoretical pool even closer to threadbare by mid 42 depending on player actions.

[mogami]

Hi, Just for the record (cough) (and thousandth time)
THE STARTING JAPANESE PILOT POOL AND MONTHLY REPLACEMENTS OF TRAINED PILOTS DOES NOT REPRESENT JAPANESE PILOT TRAINING PROGRAMS.

They are simply "IN ADDITION TO" Japanese pilot training programs.

Japanese pilot training programs are set up and maintained by the Japanese player.

Anyone who uses the pool or replacement rate to maintain the Quality of the Japanese airforces is attempting to "balance" the game. The pilot pool and replacement rate as designed have nothing to do with balance.

When you increase the pool and replacement rate you free the Japanese player from responsabilty. He now does not have to bother with pilot training or worry about loss rates from combat/operations. (It is ok to pamper the AI but any human Japanese player who alters these rates is a butt weasel)

The Japanese player does not need "training groups" (players would simply use them as combat groups) The Japanese player of the game WITP will have 2 to 3 times the number of active groups compared to historic Japan. Historic Japan disbanded groups and never rebuilt them. (They organized a new group. This new group will arrive in WITP with trained pilots whether or not Japan disbands the group historically disbanded so Japan now has 2 groups not 1)
If the Japanese player had "training" groups he would need to disband them into combat groups to use the pilots. (Same as now) So in fact the Japanese player has as many training groups as he wants. And as many combat groups as he wants.
Historic Japanese training programs are easy to maintain in WITP on map.

[Mike Solli]

Give up, Mog.

[mogami]

Hi, I wonder what percentage of my nearly 11,000 posts deal with Japanese pilot training. (.......if I had a beer for every post on pilot training how tall would the stack of cases be? or how far would they stretch if laid end to end?)

Here is my opinion. WITP would be more "historically" accurate if the starting pool was zero and no monthly trained pilots were added then it is if a player increases either the starting number or monthly rates.

[Bradley7735]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Just for the record (cough) (and thousandth time)
THE STARTING JAPANESE PILOT POOL AND MONTHLY REPLACEMENTS OF TRAINED PILOTS DOES NOT REPRESENT JAPANESE PILOT TRAINING PROGRAMS.

They are simply "IN ADDITION TO" Japanese pilot training programs.

Japanese pilot training programs are set up and maintained by the Japanese player.

Anyone who uses the pool or replacement rate to maintain the Quality of the Japanese airforces is attempting to "balance" the game. The pilot pool and replacement rate as designed have nothing to do with balance.

When you increase the pool and replacement rate you free the Japanese player from responsabilty. He now does not have to bother with pilot training or worry about loss rates from combat/operations. (It is ok to pamper the AI but any human Japanese player who alters these rates is a butt weasel)

The Japanese player does not need "training groups" (players would simply use them as combat groups) The Japanese player of the game WITP will have 2 to 3 times the number of active groups compared to historic Japan. Historic Japan disbanded groups and never rebuilt them. (They organized a new group. This new group will arrive in WITP with trained pilots whether or not Japan disbands the group historically disbanded so Japan now has 2 groups not 1)
If the Japanese player had "training" groups he would need to disband them into combat groups to use the pilots. (Same as now) So in fact the Japanese player has as many training groups as he wants. And as many combat groups as he wants.
Historic Japanese training programs are easy to maintain in WITP on map.

Hi Mogami,

I agree with you completely. But, Twotribes is asking about AI games. Not PBEM. From my experience, if you play the AI, you'll get a much more competetive game if you increase the Japanese pilot replacements. (I play as allied). I currently have 60 army and 30 navy replacements in my game. I'm just starting to turn the tide and I'm at 6/42. In the future, I think I'll go with 90/45.

I agree that a human player should be able to use on map training.

bc

[Bradley7735]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I wonder what percentage of my nearly 11,000 posts deal with Japanese pilot training. (.......if I had a beer for every post on pilot training how tall would the stack of cases be? or how far would they stretch if laid end to end?)

Here is my opinion. WITP would be more "historically" accurate if the starting pool was zero and no monthly trained pilots were added then it is if a player increases either the starting number or monthly rates.

Silly Mogami. He thinks he can stack cases of beer. Any drunk knows that you can't put a full case of beer on an empty case. It just gets worse when you keep going. One full case on two empties falls even faster.

[:D]

[mogami]

Hi, Well yes the AI does better if you increase the pool and monthy rate but that does not mean the game becomes more accurate. If you want more challange just play a human Japanese. And to get a good idea of the impact play this same Japanese player two games. One with your modified pool/rate and one without. You turn Japan into a super power if they get pilots at the rate the USA does.

[mogami]

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I wonder what percentage of my nearly 11,000 posts deal with Japanese pilot training. (.......if I had a beer for every post on pilot training how tall would the stack of cases be? or how far would they stretch if laid end to end?)

Here is my opinion. WITP would be more "historically" accurate if the starting pool was zero and no monthly trained pilots were added then it is if a player increases either the starting number or monthly rates.

Silly Mogami. He thinks he can stack cases of beer. Any drunk knows that you can't put a full case of beer on an empty case. It just gets worse when you keep going. One full case on two empties falls even faster.

[:D]

Hi, Silly Bradley thinks Mogami would stack full cases on top of empty. How could I keep them cold or reach a fresh one?

[doktorblood]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

If one assumes the pool and replacement rates are to small for the Japanese what are reasonable numbers that wont unbalance the battle and be closer to correct?

I havent ever played PBEM, so this is mostly in regards the AI.

I found that increasing the IJN pool to 200 and increasing the IJN rate to 30 and the JAAF to 50 is about right. This forstalls the collapse of IJN for a while and JAAF air for a long time. There was never any "turkey shoot" involving JAAF air.

[mogami]

Hi, I don't mess with either and have never had the IJNAF or IJAAF "collapse" on me.
The Corsair slaughters Japanese fighters of all makes and no matter what pilot experiance. So if you want the Japanese AI to fight better alter the ratings of the Corsair and not the pilot pools.

(I mean changing the pools/replacement rates is treating the symptom and not the disease. Instead remove the root of high Japanese air loss)
The P-38 is about 1-1 in A2A the Corsair is about 15-1 in A2A