Elefants

[johnhulten]

Using 8.4 I have encountered 2 Elefants playing the US in a Long Campaign scenario. The encyclopedia says Elefants can be overrun if not protected by infantry. I tried this with Shermans. I received a message that there was no infantry in the hex for my tanks to overrun.
These Elefants seem indestructible.
I did have one Sherman which was over 100 experience. In one reboot (I was experimenting of course) this Sherman did manage to kill one Elefant by entering the hex, surviving a number of 98% hit chances from the 88 and hitting the Elefant in the rear. The other Elefant then killed it. I have lost like 10 Shermans at a turn. I have been unable to get enginees near the Elefants. 105's don't even phase them.
I have decided that all I can do is let them have the run of the map. Stay away from them and blind them with smoke.
Any ideas.
On I did install the Depot's full Mod. Could that have turned these Elefants into King Kongs?

[Terminus]

Close assault them with your engineers. The point is that the Elefant has no machineguns, so if there's no German infantry nearby, they're essentially defenceless.

Ignore what the Encyclopedia says; in this case, the entry is poorly written, because it uses a term that means something specific in game terms. Tanks can't be overrun.

Keep your own tanks far away. The Elefant is a very powerful tank destroyer, and if you attack it with tanks, you're playing its game.

[johnhulten]

Thanks. That givesmesomething to work towards. I've got lots of engineers in HT. On your feet!

[Twotribes]

Doesnt the elefant have limited ammo?

[Terminus]

Not more than you'd expect for something with an 88mm gun. About 40 rounds.

BTW, it's the Ferdinand that has no MG. The Elefant has a single MG34. Oh, and 200+ mm's of armour. Good night, Sweet Prince!

[johnhulten]

No thanks. That's why the single engineer I sent in in an earlier test fot creamed. Now what should I do? I thought a lot of artillery would force the crew to bail. No luck yet!

[Terminus]

Fire everything your infantry has at the thing first. It doesn't matter if you can't possibly penetrate the armour, it's suppression that counts. Forget about blinding with smoke, blind with live rounds. Every bit of suppression takes away from the Elefant/Ferdinand's ability to defend itself.

[Riun T]

Torch the FUGGER, no vehicle in the game can take fire.RT

[Terminus]

Well yeah, obviously...[;)]

[johnhulten]

Well, I'm creeping forward. Don't know what to expect after reading all the posts about infantry vs. tanks in 8.4. I know it's not a tank, but MG are MG. I tried all kinds of supression before but those Elefants still clobbered the tanks. I got sooo many op fires from them, they seem never to run out of ammo or the morale to use it.
Do you fellows have experience using 8.4 and the Depot mod?

[Terminus]

All I can say is, keep your tanks away from them...

[johnhulten]

So far so good. Engineers got within rifle range. Peppered one of the Elefants. The other was out of sight. He didn't fire his main gun at my infantry and I think I was out of range of his mg. No fire from him at all. I got closer and he didn't fire back. At the end of the turn he panicked and ran away. (Hard to get infantry close to him). The other Elefant appeared and shot up my 3 closest engineer platoons. All retreated. But he had been buttoned. I rolled up a Sherman. We exchanged shots. He missed! Then he didn't return fire and my Sherman destroyed him. Some lucky shot was that! Quite a few other Shermans chased the routing Elefant. Almost 30 shots didn't harm him. I hope he stays routed. And that my artillery keeps his 88 Artillery pieces in the area suppressed.
Tough fight. I won't do better than a draw, I'm sure. I'm advancing. He's lost twice plus the number of units I have lost. And he will lose all victory hexes. But that's a draw!!!

[Twotribes]

I hate assaults. I have never gotten better than a marginal victory on them. Most advances I do well, but the mine fields on assault are a killer, the engineers get slammed hard by artillery no matter what you do. And even once through the breach your armor can get hit hard at first.

[Marten]

immobilize it. it's SPgun for god sake. use artilery, bombers, lucky shots... when it stops, just burn it with flamer [:@]

[VikingNo2]

If you want to kill it with Sherman them suppress it as much as you can, then attack from two different angles at the same time. These big TDs have no turrent that is the big weakness. Never shoot more than once at the Elephant when it spins to return fire then hit its sides with your shermans, alternate attacks, this causes the TD to have to switch what it's aming at, the second shot is more accurate than the first. Try to get 90 degree angles. ( Angles add to armor ) 90 degree to the tagret is what you want

[johnhulten]

To conclude: The beat up Elefant did not run away. I must have hit the gas tank! Instead the crew bailed and were done for.
Thank you all for your input. What an outstanding game and community.

[Twotribes]

When my capaigm gets that far I will have 6 of those in my core force. 2 Per SS panzergrenadier company and 2 assigned to escort the Brigade commander

[johnhulten]

Does anyone know of any literature referencing the Elefant's actual use in combat?

[FlashfyreSP]

ORIGINAL: johnhulten

Does anyone know of any literature referencing the Elefant's actual use in combat?

"Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War II", by Chamberlain and Doyle
Pg. 140, second column:

"Combat Service: Ferdinands were issued to Panzerjaegerabteilungen 653 and 654 in April and May 1943. These units fought at Kursk during the limited offensive and helped plug holes in the line for the rest of the summer and autumn. The units were pulled out late in 1943 to overhaul the vehicles, after which, the 653rd Panzerjaeger-[sic] the 614th Panzerjaegerkompanie. These vehicles were also used in Italy in 1943/44.

[johnhulten]

Well, I was in Italy in this scenario. Did Paul Casell mention the Elegant in his books on WWII?

To close: I managed a "marginal" victory. 7,950 to 1900.