Could ASW skill be added to leaders?

[pkpowers]

This might help me in my ongoing struggle to find and sink axis subs, now even my ASW DD's are getting sunk by great torpedoe shots. I'm hoping if I could pick better ASW leaders this would help them survive and do their duty.

And it would be great if aggression skill could be added to be shown in the task force list page, right now it only shows leadership and initative.

thanks...Powers, PK (future blimp leader[:'(]

[Tankerace]

ASW sucks across the board (As it should). The primary way to sink subs is on the surface.

And if you think you have it bad as the Allies, Japanese ASW is MUCH MUCH worse (Hell, in reality they didn't have a depth charge (The Type 88) until 1928. The Depth charge they are using are British depth charges. That is the only real balance thing I did in the game.

Still, I think if your ASW tF have higher aggression, it might help.


That, and I am increasing dud rates back to what I had envisioned pre beta, should bring down the hits (or at least exploding hits).

[Mike Carroll]

I am not so sure Jap ASW sucks. I am getting slaughtered in my game with Helpless. I have had one sub heavily damaged and 2 others rattled in the first couple days of the war. We have sub doctrine on and my subs have not even taken a shot yet. The Japs have put 2 torps into my ships[:D]

I am going to get the little!@#$!@$@#$@#$[:D]

[Pkunzipper]

ORIGINAL: Mike Carroll

I am not so sure Jap ASW sucks. I am getting slaughtered in my game with Helpless. I have had one sub heavily damaged and 2 others rattled in the first couple days of the war. We have sub doctrine on and my subs have not even taken a shot yet. The Japs have put 2 torps into my ships[:D]

I am going to get the little!@#$!@$@#$@#$[:D]

LOL, you were just unlucky...

In all my single player games and in my PBEM game I still have to see a sunk sub... I think the ASW engine is quite believable, I think the only tweak could be a little improvement of depth charge damage... Even a direct hit don't cause more than 10/15 sys & flood...

[von Beanie]

In the game I'm playing with PK Powers, the subs rule the seas. First, they are virtually unsinkable. For example, one of his subs torpedoed one of my BBs with four ASW task forces (of 4 DDs each and with high rated commanders) in the same hex. Secondly, even with a major effort directed towards suppressing the subs, they sail right into my harbor hexes (with 30+ ships) and shoot at capital ships. It's so frustrating that I now try to keep all of my large ships in size 3+ harbors, and only move them when absolutely necessary. This is a huge change from WITP. In the 1920's, didn't they have netting or (other protection from torpedoes) when anchored?

I hope someone will make a serious effort to tweak the sub operations in the upcoming patches.

[Tankerace]

I think increasing dud rates (and hence decreasing exploding hits) should help.

As to submarines being invulnerable, it should be that way. Most antisub kills during WWI were on the surface. All DCs are good for is forcing them to the surface, where they can be sunk by gunfire.

Ask yourself. There is no SONAR, all you have are hydrophones which are good so long as you move at under 5 knots. If you are doing 10-15 knots, how do you know where to drop a DC pattern?

As to ships being mored, they did have torpedo nets. However, they were rarely used after WWI because experience showed in WWI thay they could foul propellers and put the ship out of action. Docking your BBs in small harbors does leave them vulnerable, as it should. A Torpedo net is not foolproof to stop a torpedo, and historically, no commander would have put the bulk of his fleet in a small, unprotected harbor.

Unless I am missing something major, all I am seeing is what real Admirals would have to deal with, frustrating as it may be. Submarines are hard to kill. No SONAR, no ASDIC, weak DCs, and submarines now with the lessons of WWI. They are a threat, and this is part of the reason why you need to turn to the Q ship, to lure them to the surface and blast them.

[Pkunzipper]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
I think increasing dud rates (and hence decreasing exploding hits) should help.

Yep a LITTLE tweak on this direction could help, but it's not lethality IMHO the biggest sub problem... and I experienced already many dud...
Subs where killers (think at the beginning of WW2) and so I expect they to make a lot of damage, but also to being sunk sometimes!
Anoher issue I found is that ASW ships are too vulnerable!! My SC are getting slaughtered, while I keep my ASW at max 1 hex of distance from my bases in order to maximize chance of survivability of my DD once hit! Maybe the game should keep more in consideration ships maneuvability/max speed... SC and DD should be really a difficult target to hit!

As to submarines being invulnerable, it should be that way. Most antisub kills during WWI were on the surface. All DCs are good for is forcing them to the surface, where they can be sunk by gunfire.

Agreed, but actually they are never forced to surface, even after several DC direct hits!
How about asking D.Heath to add an algorythm to the sub combat routine that make a sub surface if it has more than 25/30 combined sys + flood damage?

[crsutton]

If I recall correctly, Jellicoe at the battle of Jutland made most of his major decisons influenced by his fear of torpedoes- both from subs and light surface ships. With the lack of any real significant ASW technology other than hydraphones, subs were an incredible threat to captial ships and should be treated so. But sub technology itself was primative and they were dangerous to operate and for the most part, pretty slow. Perhaps a higher miss rate combined with a faster accumlation of sys damage for subs at sea will help. They should be ship killers but only on occasion.

ORIGINAL: von Beanie

In the game I'm playing with PK Powers, the subs rule the seas. First, they are virtually unsinkable. For example, one of his subs torpedoed one of my BBs with four ASW task forces (of 4 DDs each and with high rated commanders) in the same hex. Secondly, even with a major effort directed towards suppressing the subs, they sail right into my harbor hexes (with 30+ ships) and shoot at capital ships. It's so frustrating that I now try to keep all of my large ships in size 3+ harbors, and only move them when absolutely necessary. This is a huge change from WITP. In the 1920's, didn't they have netting or (other protection from torpedoes) when anchored?

I hope someone will make a serious effort to tweak the sub operations in the upcoming patches.