A question about impromptu escorts

[bstarr]

Will an AP armed with ASW weapons attack a submarine?

Also, will a heavily armed AP duke it out with a surface attacker? In other words would fitting one out to fight be worth the effort, or should I just worry about the stern-chaser guns.

I'm working on an semihistoric allied player vs Jap computer mod. One thing I've noticed is the computer is bad about sending convoys into harms way without escorts. I'm trying to make unhistoric APs that can double as escorts.

[DuckofTindalos]

Would depend on the aggressiveness of the captain, but yes, an ASW-armed AP/AK will drop on a submarine, so I see no reason why a transport with a sufficiently aggressive captain wouldn't fight a surface attacker.

[bstarr]

Ah, so I should probably tweak the captain's stats. I'll give it go then.

[ckk]

I have surface fights all the time between AP/AK's and subs that attack on the surface.[;)]

[el cid again]

Will an AP armed with ASW weapons attack a submarine?

Also, will a heavily armed AP duke it out with a surface attacker? In other words would fitting one out to fight be worth the effort, or should I just worry about the stern-chaser guns.

I'm working on an semihistoric allied player vs Jap computer mod. One thing I've noticed is the computer is bad about sending convoys into harms way without escorts. I'm trying to make unhistoric APs that can double as escorts.

This may not be as "ahistoric" as you think! Japanese naval guns were outfitted with ASW shells. Japanese transports - when not otherwise armed - often carried cheap "short guns" whose major functions were to contest with submarines - either surfaced at short range or submerged!
In some ways, Japanese transports WERE their own escorts! But they lacked detection gear - a critical thing. Of course, so did many "escorts" in Japan - just converted trawlers with a .30 cal mg and 6 depth charges!

The problem with WITP is that ALL escorts are created equal for ASW purposes. ONLY a ship defined as an escort will attack a sub, and then it is as good as USS England (6 subs in 12 days)! Well - not as good in terms of DCs, but as good in terms of detection.

I regret to say I advocate getting RID of ALL Japanese minor ASW escorts - they are falsely as good as the real PCs. And I also regret to say your merchant ships will not play PC at all in terms of detecting a sub. UNLESS the sub gives itself away (a common thing in WITP) by surfacing - the merchant won't shoot at it. A trawler will because - if you look it up - it is defined as the same "class" as a real PC!

[tsimmonds]

The problem with WITP is that ALL escorts are created equal for ASW purposes. ONLY a ship defined as an escort will attack a sub, and then it is as good as USS England (6 subs in 12 days)! Well - not as good in terms of DCs, but as good in terms of detection.

I regret to say I advocate getting RID of ALL Japanese minor ASW escorts - they are falsely as good as the real PCs.

Crew experience and the CO's stats play important roles. I submit that in the game (under 1.795) IJ PCs and PGs are dismal ASW platforms in comparison with IJ DDs, which themselves are dismal in comparison with US escorts of any description. At best they may interfere with what would otherwise be unimpeded attacks on AKs, APs, and TKs by allied subs, but they certainly pose no threat whatsoever to the subs themselves.

[el cid again]

Crew experience and the CO's stats play important roles. I submit that in the game (under 1.795) IJ PCs and PGs are dismal ASW platforms in comparison with IJ DDs, which themselves are dismal in comparison with US escorts of any description. At best they may interfere with what would otherwise be unimpeded attacks on AKs, APs, and TKs by allied subs, but they certainly pose no threat whatsoever to the subs themselves.

This is a bit harsh. You just have to use your forces properly: I actually hunt Allied subs deliberately and effectively. This may be a bit like the real world of Japanese ASW: you often read about how the Japanese "could not" do this or "did not" do that- but look at the op that got USS Wahoo. They did it all - and Wahoo never stood a chance. They didn't like that particular sub, and for once there were no problems with how much rare and expensive fuel or ordnance you could expend. Nor with cooperation between branches/units. I even have an "ASW trap" I lay using landing craft! If subs are getting pesky and making surface attacks on little supply convoys - instead of diverting my anything but useless major escorts - I just load a convoy with an AAA unit. Eats those subs right up!

[Ron Saueracker]

I just load a convoy with an AAA unit. Eats those subs right up!

What are you saying, Cid? The AAA unit fires from onboard ships???[X(]

[el cid again]

I just load a convoy with an AAA unit. Eats those subs right up!

What are you saying, Cid? The AAA unit fires from onboard ships???

Something I discovered unintentionally - just transporting them. This is not all AA units - it is the Japanese "machine cannon" units - the lighter stuff. It DOES fire from LANDING CRAFT. Massively too, from the point of view of a submarine.

Sid

[tabpub]

Wow...a flak barge...

"Another barge convoy, Captain."
"Surface and engage with deck guns, Ensign."
<gunfire begins, then heard from barges>
"EAT LEAD, sub pirates!!" as 10 20mm cannon open up on the surprised sub.
[X(]

[Mike Solli]

Does anyone know if this is intentional?

[el cid again]

Does anyone know if this is intentional?

I am told this is very old - pre WITP. The idea was to give some AA protection to barge convoys. But the AI seems to figure - "if the guns can shoot - and there is a target - shoot!" And of course 25mm guns do nasty things to 1 inch hulls.

[bstarr]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Will an AP armed with ASW weapons attack a submarine?

Also, will a heavily armed AP duke it out with a surface attacker? In other words would fitting one out to fight be worth the effort, or should I just worry about the stern-chaser guns.

I'm working on an semihistoric allied player vs Jap computer mod. One thing I've noticed is the computer is bad about sending convoys into harms way without escorts. I'm trying to make unhistoric APs that can double as escorts.

This may not be as "ahistoric" as you think! Japanese naval guns were outfitted with ASW shells. Japanese transports - when not otherwise armed - often carried cheap "short guns" whose major functions were to contest with submarines - either surfaced at short range or submerged!
In some ways, Japanese transports WERE their own escorts! But they lacked detection gear - a critical thing. Of course, so did many "escorts" in Japan - just converted trawlers with a .30 cal mg and 6 depth charges!

The problem with WITP is that ALL escorts are created equal for ASW purposes. ONLY a ship defined as an escort will attack a sub, and then it is as good as USS England (6 subs in 12 days)! Well - not as good in terms of DCs, but as good in terms of detection.

I regret to say I advocate getting RID of ALL Japanese minor ASW escorts - they are falsely as good as the real PCs. And I also regret to say your merchant ships will not play PC at all in terms of detecting a sub. UNLESS the sub gives itself away (a common thing in WITP) by surfacing - the merchant won't shoot at it. A trawler will because - if you look it up - it is defined as the same "class" as a real PC!

Actually, since first testing my makeshift ASW platforms I have seen an AP make an ASW attack on a sub. I believe the normal problem lies in crew experience. I gave my "AMC" ships a respectable skill of 45 rather than the normal miserable AP or AK skill, and sure enough I've seen at least two instances of a Jap AP initiating an attack on a sub.

[el cid again]

Actually, since first testing my makeshift ASW platforms I have seen an AP make an ASW attack on a sub. I believe the normal problem lies in crew experience. I gave my "AMC" ships a respectable skill of 45 rather than the normal miserable AP or AK skill, and sure enough I've seen at least two instances of a Jap AP initiating an attack on a sub

Which is wrong. A ship using visual only detection outfitted with ASW shells is not a good ASW vessel.

[bstarr]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Actually, since first testing my makeshift ASW platforms I have seen an AP make an ASW attack on a sub. I believe the normal problem lies in crew experience. I gave my "AMC" ships a respectable skill of 45 rather than the normal miserable AP or AK skill, and sure enough I've seen at least two instances of a Jap AP initiating an attack on a sub

Which is wrong. A ship using visual only detection outfitted with ASW shells is not a good ASW vessel.

Nor is using AAA LCUs on barges to trap subs. We all have our tricks to even the playing field; not all of them are realistic. [;)]

Besides, who's to say these ships don't have sonar. I know of at least one instance of a 9500 ton jap refrigeration ship (Irako) that was equipped with a pair of DC racks and a sonar.