What the Heck is this thing?

panda124c · Post by **panda124c** » Tue Jan 08, 2002 6:44 pm

Playing the Germans in a long WWII Campain I came across a French tank (?) called the FT-17 75BS, it look like a 75mm armed FT-17 with a range of 120. Just what is this thing??????

[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: pbear ]</p>

FNG · Post by **FNG** » Tue Jan 08, 2002 7:05 pm

Originally posted by pbear:
Playing the Germans in a long WWII Campain I came across a French tank (?) called the FT-17 75BS, it look like a 75mm armed FT-17 with a range of 120. Just what is this thing??????

[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: pbear ]

Check out:

http://www.shadowsfolly.com/wwii/France/FT17.htm

Apparently it's an FT-17 modified by the Germans to carry a short 75mm.

Warhorse · Post by **Warhorse** » Tue Jan 08, 2002 10:14 pm

Not really, the Germans may have modified some also, but it was a French support tank, although pretty sure not many were thusly equipped. I am at work, but I remember reading about it's limited use in French service. It mounted the 75mm Blockhause howitzer.

panda124c · Post by **panda124c** » Wed Jan 09, 2002 12:55 am

Thanks, I'd really like to see a picture of this monstrosity, wonder where the gunner sat since it's a one man turrent with not much room for the 37mm much less a 75mm. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

asgrrr · Post by **asgrrr** » Wed Jan 09, 2002 1:48 am

Originally posted by pbear:
Thanks, I'd really like to see a picture of this monstrosity, wonder where the gunner sat since it's a one man turrent with not much room for the 37mm much less a 75mm. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

I don't think this can possibly be a turreted vehicle...

Warhorse · Post by **Warhorse** » Wed Jan 09, 2002 4:56 am

It is indeed a turreted vehicle, there was one FT-17 75BS included (optimumly)in each section, ie platoon, of 5 FT-17M/C.I have a whole book by squadron on the FT series, unfortunately it's packed away for moving now!! Here's a link for a pic of one..

http://mtg.ipx.pl/francja/ft.htm

[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: Warhorse ]</p>

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Wed Jan 09, 2002 7:29 am

Originally posted by FNG:
[QB]

Check out:

http://www.shadowsfolly.com/wwii/France/FT17.htm
QB]

This is a great site, thanks for posting it.

panda124c · Post by **panda124c** » Wed Jan 09, 2002 5:35 pm

Originally posted by Warhorse:
It is indeed a turreted vehicle, there was one FT-17 75BS included (optimumly)in each section, ie platoon, of 5 FT-17M/C.I have a whole book by squadron on the FT series, unfortunately it's packed away for moving now!! Here's a link for a pic of one..

http://mtg.ipx.pl/francja/ft.htm

[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: Warhorse ]

Wow, now thats a small 75mm, looks like you could carry it in your back pocket, <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> thanks for the picture.

toundra · Post by **toundra** » Wed Jan 09, 2002 6:20 pm

Everything you want to know about the FT17

all in French but tons of pictures

http://perso.club-internet.fr/po2260/FT17/FT17.htm

here is a picture of the FT 17 BS
and the "75 mm houwitzer BR Pétoire(this is almost impossible to translate but a pétoire is an old gun more noisy than effective =)"

http://members.tripod.com/~panzerlm/ft17bsaj.htm

panda124c · Post by **panda124c** » Wed Jan 09, 2002 10:51 pm

Originally posted by Toundra:
Everything you want to know about the FT17

all in French but tons of pictures

http://perso.club-internet.fr/po2260/FT17/FT17.htm

here is a picture of the FT 17 BS
and the "75 mm houwitzer BR Pétoire(this is almost impossible to translate but a pétoire is an old gun more noisy than effective =)"

http://members.tripod.com/~panzerlm/ft17bsaj.htm

Fantastic site.

Jacc · Post by **Jacc** » Thu Jan 10, 2002 2:33 am

FT-17 was available as both "male" and "female" (male armed with cannon, female with machine guns). The FT-17 armed with short 75 mm cannon was produced in large quantities after WW1, and had significant effect (as well as Christine) in further tank designs - many Soviet tanks adapted the advances of FT-17, which was considered useful.

Mounting a short cannon, and carrying light armour, the tank was not adopted for anti-tank role, but was instead an infantry support model. Finns bought few of these at 1930s (I think), but since good Soviet tanks became available from November 1939 onwards, the FT-17s were dug in as pillboxes. (Before that they were assigned for Panssaridivisioona). Turning turret was armed with 37mm AT-gun.

FT-17 is, thus, quite a remarkable tank, but from totally different era than tanks of SPWAW. As well as this should we remember Christie (ultimately resulting as T-34).

Jarkko · Post by **Jarkko** » Thu Jan 10, 2002 1:13 pm

Originally posted by James Coscinu:

Finns bought few of these at 1930s (I think), but since good Soviet tanks became available from November 1939 onwards, the FT-17s were dug in as pillboxes. (Before that they were assigned for Panssaridivisioona). Turning turret was armed with 37mm AT-gun. .

I am sorry to say you have partly wrong data. Finland never had FT-17 armed with 75 mm gun. Finland bought its 32 FT-17 tanks at summer of year 1919 from France. Only exception to this were two FT-17 (one "male" and one "female") given by French at 1921 as replacements to tanks that French had made Finns to "borrow" to General Judenich's North-West White Army of Russian Civil War (the "borrowed" ones were returned in really bad shape).

From the total 34 FT-17 tanks that Finns had 15 were "male" (armed with 37mm Puteaux gun used already in WW1) and 19 were "female" (armed with French 8 mm machinegun until year 1936, at which point they were rearmed with 7.62 mm air-cooled Maxim machinegun).

Finnish "Panssaridivisioona" (=Armour Division) was established during Continuation War (around 1942 during it). Unit using them just before Winter War was "Panssari Pataljoona" (=Tank battalion). Data about being used only as pillboxes (method used: FT-17 tanks were simply dug in, so that only turret was above ground) during Winter War (1939 - 1940) is correct. Almost all FT-17 got destroyed in battles (only 4 survived). These might have been in training use after that (until 1943), but they never saw battle use during Continuation War (1941 - 1944).

No 37 mm AT-gun was installed in any of Finnish FT-17 tanks (turret would have most probably been too small for 37 mm Bofors at-gun). Actual main reason behind not being used as tanks (instead of pillpoxes) during Winter War was the poor armour penetration capability of 37 mm Puteaux (L/21?) guns (and ammunition used in them) revealed by live fire tests done at 1938.

toundra · Post by **toundra** » Thu Jan 10, 2002 3:12 pm

All you need to know about French guns
and the famous 75 mm Puteaux gun.

http://www.miniatures.de/html/int/canon75mmMLE1897-1940.html

http://www.miniatures.de/html/int/shellsWx.html

http://www.miniatures.de/html/int/shellsF.html

( i live in Puteaux <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> )