Caves...

chpo · Post by **chpo** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 1:51 am

I am still in the process of learning what is special in SPWAW compared with the old SP.

It is stated in the manual (ver 5.01) that caves cannot be hit except through the front entrance.

So, how do I know where the entrance is? The graphical representation does not make it obviuos to me. And what angle of fire do those cave dwellers have? They cannot fire back into the hill, but is it an angle of 120 degrees, 180 or what?

ruxius · Post by **ruxius** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 2:23 am

Originally posted by chpo:
I am still in the process of learning what is special in SPWAW compared with the old SP.

Eeeeeh ?????
Are you kidding me ?
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">

bigtroutz · Post by **bigtroutz** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 5:12 am

click this thread, and all you questions will be answered <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

http://www.matrixgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=008078

chpo · Post by **chpo** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 2:03 pm

Thanks, bigtroutz, for trying to answer the question.

However, in that thread I only find how to take out/or ignore the caves but not the answer to my questions:

1. How do I know where the entrance is?
2. What area can the cave fire into?

Resisti · Post by **Resisti** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 2:39 pm

Originally posted by chpo:

1. How do I know where the entrance is?
2. What area can the cave fire into?

Well, for #1 the reply is simple: where the cave fires from!
I suspect you misunderstood the term "entrance": it is not the place where its..inhabitants enter from, but the place where they fire thier weapons from... so entrance it is exactly the fron t of the cave.

For #2 I dont have a precise reply, just think their fire angle is the same as all the other emplacement..

chpo · Post by **chpo** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:49 pm

Resisti wrote:
"I suspect you misunderstood the term "entrance": it is not the place where its..inhabitants enter from, but the place where they fire thier weapons from... so entrance it is exactly the front of the cave."

Yes, but this is my question: How can I see on the map where the entrance is? Sometimes I get fired upon by units in a cave that remains invisible to me until another unit spots the cave. Even if the unit that took the fire sees the cave, how do I know whether it is the units to the right or to the left that are in peril?

"For #2 I dont have a precise reply, just think their fire angle is the same as all the other emplacement.."

By "Emplacement", do you mean observation posts, bunkers etc? OK, that makes sense. So, what is the fire angle for those? If it is in the manual I must not have read it as well as I thought...

bigtroutz · Post by **bigtroutz** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 8:01 pm

if you can't see the cave, then you can only know its field of fire by walking into it <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

the cave icon is a offset kind of brown line with yellow edges. if it is like | with the offset pointing at YOU, then the cave weapons are looking at you.

ok /....\ok
ok |...|| :/ <- poor dood in the death zone
ok \..../ok

with most fortifications and caves, the hexes to the left and right of the death zone one hex out can be entered to attack w/o being fired on. more than one hex out, its more problematic.

[ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: bigtroutz ]</p>

bigtroutz · Post by **bigtroutz** » Sun Jan 13, 2002 8:13 pm

ummm, about the view angle, i am going to guess that since the game uses HEXES (6 sides) and caves can only see OUT from ONE side: 360 degrees of view divided by 6 = 60 degrees of view per side of hex. dunno if this is real or just Aristotelian logic, i never whipped out my protractor and placed it on the screen or something. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

chpo · Post by **chpo** » Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:54 am

Thanks, bigtroutz! I have now done what I obviuosly should have done from the start: Loaded the editor and experimented a little. Still, I thought it might be in the manual....

It turns out to be exactly as you tried to illustrate: Only the hex just in front of the cave mouth is vulnerable IF the cave mouth is in the direction of the hex grid.

However, it might be angled along the hexline separating two hexes in front of it and then both those two hexes may be covered with fire from the cave. Of course all angles in between give different results, it all depends on which hex you clicked on to set the alignment in the editor! Hmm, now I start to understand why the question wasn't that easy to answer.

At least I now better understand how to interpret the cave graphic!

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:30 am

Some emplacements are able to fire to the 3 hexes in front of it (sometimes only two depending on the facing) and some to only one in front (sometimes 2).

It all deppends on the facing. Lets say you are facing exactly in a 45º position. In the case of the caves, after the first you should have 3 hexes. But if you are in a 0º position then the cave should be able to see 2 hexes in radius 1 and 3 in radius 2.

The most important here is that you SEE the cave and it's facing and then try to determine which hexes it could see.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Mon Jan 14, 2002 11:59 am

Another easier way is to trace LOS (Line of Sight). If you can see them, they can see you. Check the cave for its line of sight. In the scenario, right clik directly in front of it.

It will show you LOS. Anything within that LOS can see the cave entracne and fire into it.

Wild Bill