Game Interface - Place Units On Map

[Shannon V. OKeets]

The next form to improve on my list is the Place Units On Map form.

This form is used at the start of a scenario, when reinforcements arrive, when reserves are called out, when minor countries enter the game because they are attacked or aligned, and to place partisans on the map. It is very important that this form be done right because it is the first form that a player will use when he first plays MWIF. If this is awkward to use, confusing, or otherwise dysfunctional, it can cast a gloom over the entire MWIF gaming experience.

Regrettably, there are several tasks that need to be performed using this form and the entire process of placing units on the map for WIF is not straightforward. So, there has to be some complexity simply to follow the mandated WIF procedure.

Though players may not be using the Carriers in Flames or Planes in Flames options when playing MWIF, this form needs to support those options. This means that the player has several tasks to perform:

(1) Choose a number of air units from a random selection (e.g., choose 2 out of 5)

(2) Choose to which air units - from those picked in step 1 - to assign pilots

(3) Choose which carrier air units - from those picked in step 2 - to assign to which carriers

(4) Place all units on the map.

There are two major difficulties the Place Units On Map form has to overcome, in addition to accomplishing these 4 specific tasks. They have to permit the player to undo his decisions. And they have to restrict the placement of units to certain geographical locations as specified in the set up rules for WIF.

I have worked through several possible ways of doing this and here is what I have now. Rather than throw together draft screen shot(s), I would prefer to describe the process in words. Screen shots don’t really explain the process anyway.

The form will be as small as I can make it vertically, but the full width of the screen. It will contain 4 basic sections:

Group: a vertical list of groups to be placed (each group has a distinct geographical restriction on where units in the group can be placed).
Air: a horizontal list of air units sorted by type.
Naval: a horizontal list of naval units sorted by type.
Land: a horizontal list of land units sorted by type.

For screen shots of what I intend for the air. naval. and land lists see the User Interface thread posts for the Scrap Units form.

Each land unit will have a label underneath it saying “Ready”. That means it can be placed on the board. Most of the naval units will be Ready too. The only exceptions will be carriers that have not been assigned carrier air units. Their label will say “No Planes”. Once planes are assigned, then the carrier label will change to Ready.

The air units are the trickiest. All of them will start out as either “Unpicked” or “No Pilot”. The player left clicks on an Unpicked air unit to pick it. It’s label will then become “No Pilot”. Left clicking a second time - on a No Pilot air unit - will return it to the status of Unpicked.

In some cases there is only one plane to choose from, so the program will automatically start those units at step 2. Now, I intend to actually use the label “No Pilot - 3" or some other number. The number will be how many pilots are available for that type of plane. Note that the carrier pilots are different from other pilots. The player might have 5 land based pilots and 3 carrier pilots available during setup.

Right clicking on an air unit without a pilot will transform it either into Ready (if it is a land based air unit) or “No Carrier” if it is a carrier air unit. Right clicking a second time - on a Ready land based air unit or a No Carrier air unit - will undo the assignment of a pilot to the air unit and return it to No Pilot status.

Left clicking on a No Carrier air unit and then left clicking on a carrier assigns the air unit to the carrier. At that time the air unit will have the status of Assigned and the carrier will have the status of Ready. Right clicking on either the assigned air unit or the Ready carrier will undo the assignment.

Yeah, I know. That is a lot of left and right clicks. However, once you have done it a couple of times it will be pretty easy. Mistakes are painless too, since everything can be undone and redoing tasks is very simple. I considered the use of drop down menus and drag and drop processes, but they can be tedious and require a finer degree of mouse control (selecting a certain item off a menu is harder that clicking on a unit). Using keystrokes in combination with mouse clicks also was more complicated. I’ll work out a way for this to be done just using keystrokes too, but I expect the mouse to be the preferred method for most players.

This brings us to item # 4 on the task list. All units that are Ready can be placed on the map at any time. Carrier air units can also be placed on the map as stand alone air units (without their carrier). Normally they will be assigned to a carrier and they will be placed on the map when their carrier is placed on the map.

The player can select as many units as he likes (left clicking on each) and then move the cursor around over the map. There is no need to drag and drop here. If the units can be positioned in the hex, the cursor will be a green crosshair (circle with cross). If the hex is illegal (due to stacking limitations or setup restrictions) then the cursor is a red X. Left click on a legal hex and the units are placed therein. Right clicking on a placed unit brings up a menu with the option of returning the unit to the setup lists. Placed units can also be repositioned on the map freely, so long as they do not violate stacking or setup restrictions.

The player goes through this process for each of his setup groups. For example, the USA has part of its navy required to set up on the East Coast, part on the West Coast, and part in Honolulu. Their fourth setup group (mostly land and air units) can be placed anywhere in the US.

There are a few more things for this form: save and load setup positions from disk, for instance. But what do you think?

[dhatchen]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Though players may not be using the Carriers in Flames or Planes in Flames options when playing MWIF, this form needs to support those options. This means that the player has several tasks to perform:

(1) Choose a number of air units from a random selection (e.g., choose 2 out of 5)

(2) Choose to which air units - from those picked in step 1 - to assign pilots

(3) Choose which carrier air units - from those picked in step 2 - to assign to which carriers

(4) Place all units on the map.

I would have to reread the RAW, but if I remember the setup rules correctly, when playing with any of the Planes in Flames kits and with pilots, the excess planes go into the Reserve Pool. Playing without these kits sends the excess planes back to the Force Pool. There would then be no need for point #2 at all. Effectively speaking, choosing a plane IS assigning a pilot. This also removes a level of interaction and simplifies your UI.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: dhatchen

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Though players may not be using the Carriers in Flames or Planes in Flames options when playing MWIF, this form needs to support those options. This means that the player has several tasks to perform:

(1) Choose a number of air units from a random selection (e.g., choose 2 out of 5)

(2) Choose to which air units - from those picked in step 1 - to assign pilots

(3) Choose which carrier air units - from those picked in step 2 - to assign to which carriers

(4) Place all units on the map.

I would have to reread the RAW, but if I remember the setup rules correctly, when playing with any of the Planes in Flames kits and with pilots, the excess planes go into the Reserve Pool. Playing without these kits sends the excess planes back to the Force Pool. There would then be no need for point #2 at all. Effectively speaking, choosing a plane IS assigning a pilot. This also removes a level of interaction and simplifies your UI.

Correct.

[Caranorn]

Just a note.

It might be worthwhile to create a (or more) tutorial scenario(s) for the final game where all units start deployed on the map and thereby sidepass the setup process (which might indeed appear like a serious obstacle to a new player).

[amwild]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

The player can select as many units as he likes (left clicking on each) and then move the cursor around over the map. There is no need to drag and drop here. If the units can be positioned in the hex, the cursor will be a green crosshair (circle with cross). If the hex is illegal (due to stacking limitations or setup restrictions) then the cursor is a red X. Left click on a legal hex and the units are placed therein. Right clicking on a placed unit brings up a menu with the option of returning the unit to the setup lists. Placed units can also be repositioned on the map freely, so long as they do not violate stacking or setup restrictions.

Can you dim illegal and fully stacked hexes - illegal hexes dimmer than otherwise legal but fully stacked hexes? That would give an idea of where units can be placed faster than is the case when waving the cursor over the map and watching it change. Keep the red X for illegal hexes as well, and it becomes even more obvious.

In the case of placing reinforcements where older units that may not be moved during this process already exist, the older units could also be dimmed.

Don't entirely rule out dragging and dropping. A bunch of units could be selected on the form then dragged onto the map to form a stack, and a just-placed stack could be dragged around the map or back onto the form. If the player doesn't want to drag and drop, select and click as described in the quote above could also be an option.

[c92nichj]

Right clicking on a placed unit brings up a menu with the option of returning the unit to the setup lists.

this is good news I was always annoyed by that you couldn't move a unit until you placed all of them in CWIF

[Froonp]

ORIGINAL: Caranorn

Just a note.

It might be worthwhile to create a (or more) tutorial scenario(s) for the final game where all units start deployed on the map and thereby sidepass the setup process (which might indeed appear like a serious obstacle to a new player).

The game could also ship with pre-saved setups for each major power. For example, an Italian going to Egypt Setup, an Italian going for Gib setup, an Italian going into the Alps setup, an Italian going into the Balkans setup, etc...

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Caranorn

Just a note.

It might be worthwhile to create a (or more) tutorial scenario(s) for the final game where all units start deployed on the map and thereby sidepass the setup process (which might indeed appear like a serious obstacle to a new player).

Excellent idea. Thanks.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: amwild

Can you dim illegal and fully stacked hexes - illegal hexes dimmer than otherwise legal but fully stacked hexes? That would give an idea of where units can be placed faster than is the case when waving the cursor over the map and watching it change. Keep the red X for illegal hexes as well, and it becomes even more obvious.

In the case of placing reinforcements where older units that may not be moved during this process already exist, the older units could also be dimmed.

Don't entirely rule out dragging and dropping. A bunch of units could be selected on the form then dragged onto the map to form a stack, and a just-placed stack could be dragged around the map or back onto the form. If the player doesn't want to drag and drop, select and click as described in the quote above could also be an option.

I like the idea of indicating where units can be placed without having to actually move the cursor over the hex. I will have to think about how to implement that (a faint X or target icon is a good suggestion).

Mulitple units can be selected and placed simultaneously under my proposed design.

The phrase "drag and drop" is a Microsoft term and has a very specific programming meaning - how the code is written and works. From the user's point of view it means that the player would have to keep the mouse button depressed while dragging the units around the map.

What I am proposing is using the system that Chris developed for CWIF. That lets the player select one or more units (releasing the mouse button each time) and then cursor around the map freely. The player can use the global map and right clicking on it jumps the detailed map to the corresponding location. You can also use the scroll bars, zoom in and out, all while having the stack of units selected, waiting for you to left click on a hex to place them.

See why I like Chris' solution better?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Caranorn

Just a note.

It might be worthwhile to create a (or more) tutorial scenario(s) for the final game where all units start deployed on the map and thereby sidepass the setup process (which might indeed appear like a serious obstacle to a new player).

The game could also ship with pre-saved setups for each major power. For example, an Italian going to Egypt Setup, an Italian going for Gib setup, an Italian going into the Alps setup, an Italian going into the Balkans setup, etc...

Yes.

I think it wouldn't be a bad idea for a new player to simply load a saved game that is right at the point where he gets to move and attack with the German in Barbarossa. Experienced WIF players are likely to be appalled at such a concept ("No random draw of units?"[X(]). That way we could know what options have been selected too. For example, we could do away with CAP for newbies.

[YohanTM2]

Most of the naval units will be Ready too. The only exceptions will be carriers that have not been assigned carrier air units. Their label will say “No Planes”. Once planes are assigned, then the carrier label will change to Ready.

You have noted that carriers without planes will be not marked ready. Will they still be able to be placed on the board in a not-ready state? There is at least one scenario where the CW may not be able to plane up all its CVs. Also, a player may choose to do this for some reason of their own.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Yohan

Most of the naval units will be Ready too. The only exceptions will be carriers that have not been assigned carrier air units. Their label will say “No Planes”. Once planes are assigned, then the carrier label will change to Ready.

You have noted that carriers without planes will be not marked ready. Will they still be able to be placed on the board in a not-ready state? There is at least one scenario where the CW may not be able to plane up all its CVs. Also, a player may choose to do this for some reason of their own.

Yes. I knew that when I was writing the description of the process, but it was running so long I left it out. It's nice to see that someone is reading it so closely. Both carriers without air units, and carrier air units without carriers can be placed on the map separately.

However, I will restrict the placement of air units onto carriers to being done using the two lists at the top of the screen (the air and naval unit lists). That simplifies the interface. If the player assigns air units to carriers and then changes his mind, he will have to take the carrier unit off the map (thereby returning both units to the lists above). That should happen rarely, so the fact that process is inefficient doesn't bother me.

[tiikki]

Hmm... on the old Chriss beta CWiF I hated reports of illeagal setup. Like 1 russian unit short on either on Rumanian or Germany border, it just informed it as an illeagal setup. Not giving any information what was missing and from where...

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: tiikki

Hmm... on the old Chriss beta CWiF I hated reports of illeagal setup. Like 1 russian unit short on either on Rumanian or Germany border, it just informed it as an illeagal setup. Not giving any information what was missing and from where...

That's easy enough to fix. I'll make the error message provide more information - after all, the code knows precisely how the set up fails to meet requirements. By the way, that section of code has a specific reference to one hex that is exactly 2 hexes away from both Rumania and Germany occupied Poland. Units in those hexes do NOT get counted twice. That could be the error condition that you found confusing.

I started with the 100,000 lines of CWIF code, so if there are other old CWIF aggravations, best let me know about them now. Otherwise you might still be aggravated by them in MWIF.

[lomyrin]

Aside from the initial placement of Carriers with planes there will be many ocassions where a Carrier is without a plane by reason of plane shot down, plane rebased to land, rebasing exchange with a better plane, a new Carrier arriving without a plane available etc.

I would expect these activities to be handled on map without removals to a setup box.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

Aside from the initial placement of Carriers with planes there will be many ocassions where a Carrier is without a plane by reason of plane shot down, plane rebased to land, rebasing exchange with a better plane, a new Carrier arriving without a plane available etc.

I would expect these activities to be handled on map without removals to a setup box.

A good point. I have been thinking mostly about setting up all the units at the start of a scenario.

How about this?

If a carrier air unit is placed in a hex that contains 1 or more carriers without attached air units, then the player will be prompted about placing them on a carrier or not. If he says yes, then he is asked which carrier. I'll clean the process up, but that is the general idea.

The reason I want to encourage assigning carrier air units to carriers before they are placed on the map is that it is more efficient and players are less likely to get confused. For example, in CWIF the carriers are all placed on the map first. When you get to the air units, it is difficult to remember which carrier classes are in which hexes. This gets even more confusing given that you have to select which carrier air units to keep and which to place in reserve. If you get the mix wrong, you end up with a carrier air unit that is too large to fit on any of the remaining carriers.

[stretch]

I like this, I agree with the argument too. You are a very logical beast.

With fear of straying a little off topic.. I have always found carrier plane assignment to need a little extra help with record keeping. Any chance of a special in-game window for CV plane management that could be called up..it would show all of the major power's CV and CV air units that are on map (and who is loaded on who?). Not just an on map filter but a place to see everything at one time. If done in the air rebase phase one could maybe rebase within the window as well? even if not, just gathering them all in one window would make it easy to see what is out there and appropriate notes can be taken for further attention.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: stretch

I like this, I agree with the argument too. You are a very logical beast.

With fear of straying a little off topic.. I have always found carrier plane assignment to need a little extra help with record keeping. Any chance of a special in-game window for CV plane management that could be called up..it would show all of the major power's CV and CV air units that are on map (and who is loaded on who?). Not just an on map filter but a place to see everything at one time. If done in the air rebase phase one could maybe rebase within the window as well? even if not, just gathering them all in one window would make it easy to see what is out there and appropriate notes can be taken for further attention.

My knee jerk response to suggestions like this is to try to transform them from a one-of-a-kind situation (e.g. "carriers and the planes they are wed to") into a broader definition ("what's happening, dude?").

There is a problem that you are trying to solve and you want information about the current situation to solve it. I could make an educated guess, but instead I will simply ask you to describe what the problem is. That way I won't take your concern off in a different direction with a bad guess.

You needn't worry about the expansion of the solution to a broader class of problems - or even what the broader class of problems might be. I'll do that - though your input there would be of great interest to me too.

So, could you expand on the problem: "carrier plane assignment to need a little extra help with record keeping"?

[stretch]

sure.. I always end up with a CV air unit or two that won't fit on what I have, or I end up having a less than optimum deployment.. i.e. I don't have the strongest possible units on the ships that can hold them. Maybe it's just me... but the units when built are drawn randomly and have different factors. The CV's have fixed, but different capacities. There is an optimum assignment of CV air to CVs. To find it means going through different stacks of units at different bases (unless everything is based in one place) and figuring it out. Sure, it isn't the biggest problem in WiF and you certainly don't have to mess with it very often... but if the interface would show me everything at once, it would make that job easier when I have to do it

i may be spouting on.. but my favorite aspect of WWII is the naval side, so I hold it closer to my heart.

[scout1]

Dumb question.....

Are the units tagged one at a time for placement, or can the player gang tag several at a time. Another pet peeve of mine form WitP, theybuilt the UI as if everyone wants to do everything ONE at a TIME. Can't hit multiple units at a single crack for orders. Makes data entry somewhat tedious.