Nisshin and Midget Subs

[el cid again]

I do not think it is well understood that the Midgets (used at Hawaii, in Australia and Madagascar) were DESIGNED for use in a different context - in naval surface action. To that end, some ships were modified to deliver batches of 12 or 24 at full speed - discharging 4 at a time over the stern! [Correction: I found drawings: batches of 12 dischargin 2 at a time - they stowed 4 abreast but only 2 could go down the stern ramp at once - side by side]

I did not understand that two such ships sailed at Midway! One of these ships - Nisshin - seems not to have an air group. She had no job when the war begun - apparently she was having her stern ramp modified for the midgets - and while lots of sources have her at Midway - none credit her with planes. The plane unit assigned to her by stock and CHS show up on the official IJN lists for BOTH the war start and Midway as being ashore - and in too small a quantity to be of much value (only 6). Since I have created a midget device for use with subs, I modified Nisshin to be a CL that has 12 of these plus capacity for 12 floatplanes (and no assigned group). This because at Midway she had only 12 midgets aboard. One of the Chitose's had another squadron of them.

I have collected materials on the midgets. One type that you can physically see in a museum DID NOT EXIST! Well - if you believe references. She is a "recon type kaiten" - a vessel no where described by anyone. There are other mysteries. The ONLY Army transport subs (very small) that were surrendered were two that had sunk in harbor. EVERY OTHER ONE was sent - we don't know where. But reading about the Nakano School, I am sure they had jobs. There are also mysteries about big submarines: one seems to have gone to Panama in Aug 1945 - but no vessel we know of was available for the mission (she left that recon Kaiten behind); and US Army Intel Europe found evidence a submarine had transited ROUND TRIP in only two months in 1945 - but again what submarine could do that? Yet passengers had made the voyage; Finally we have a IJN submarine (at least we know it is an I boat because it was seen) saluting a sailing vessel late in the war - but no one is sure what submarine it could have been? Very odd - to render military honors to an enemy vessel in time of war!

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I do not think it is well understood that the Midgets (used at Hawaii, in Australia and Madagascar) were DESIGNED for use in a different context - in naval surface action. To that end, some ships were modified to deliver batches of 12 or 24 at full speed - discharging 4 at a time over the stern!

I did not understand that two such ships sailed at Midway! One of these ships - Nisshin - seems not to have an air group. She had no job when the war begun - apparently she was having her stern ramp modified for the midgets - and while lots of sources have her at Midway - none credit her with planes. The plane unit assigned to her by stock and CHS show up on the official IJN lists for BOTH the war start and Midway as being ashore - and in too small a quantity to be of much value (only 6). Since I have created a midget device for use with subs, I modified Nisshin to be a CL that has 12 of these plus capacity for 12 floatplanes (and no assigned group). This because at Midway she had only 12 midgets aboard. One of the Chitose's had another squadron of them.

I have collected materials on the midgets. One type that you can physically see in a museum DID NOT EXIST! Well - if you believe references. She is a "recon type kaiten" - a vessel no where described by anyone. There are other mysteries. The ONLY Army transport subs (very small) that were surrendered were two that had sunk in harbor. EVERY OTHER ONE was sent - we don't know where. But reading about the Nakano School, I am sure they had jobs. There are also mysteries about big submarines: one seems to have gone to Panama in Aug 1945 - but no vessel we know of was available for the mission (she left that recon Kaiten behind); and US Army Intel Europe found evidence a submarine had transited ROUND TRIP in only two months in 1945 - but again what submarine could do that? Yet passengers had made the voyage; Finally we have a IJN submarine (at least we know it is an I boat because it was seen) saluting a sailing vessel late in the war - but no one is sure what submarine it could have been? Very odd - to render military honors to an enemy vessel in time of war!

hehe you need to contact Brady about this stuff. he would be thrilled! [:D]

fb.asp?m=683433&key=midgets

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I do not think it is well understood that the Midgets (used at Hawaii, in Australia and Madagascar) were DESIGNED for use in a different context - in naval surface action. To that end, some ships were modified to deliver batches of 12 or 24 at full speed - discharging 4 at a time over the stern!

I did not understand that two such ships sailed at Midway! One of these ships - Nisshin - seems not to have an air group. She had no job when the war begun - apparently she was having her stern ramp modified for the midgets - and while lots of sources have her at Midway - none credit her with planes. The plane unit assigned to her by stock and CHS show up on the official IJN lists for BOTH the war start and Midway as being ashore - and in too small a quantity to be of much value (only 6). Since I have created a midget device for use with subs, I modified Nisshin to be a CL that has 12 of these plus capacity for 12 floatplanes (and no assigned group). This because at Midway she had only 12 midgets aboard. One of the Chitose's had another squadron of them.

I have collected materials on the midgets. One type that you can physically see in a museum DID NOT EXIST! Well - if you believe references. She is a "recon type kaiten" - a vessel no where described by anyone. There are other mysteries. The ONLY Army transport subs (very small) that were surrendered were two that had sunk in harbor. EVERY OTHER ONE was sent - we don't know where. But reading about the Nakano School, I am sure they had jobs. There are also mysteries about big submarines: one seems to have gone to Panama in Aug 1945 - but no vessel we know of was available for the mission (she left that recon Kaiten behind); and US Army Intel Europe found evidence a submarine had transited ROUND TRIP in only two months in 1945 - but again what submarine could do that? Yet passengers had made the voyage; Finally we have a IJN submarine (at least we know it is an I boat because it was seen) saluting a sailing vessel late in the war - but no one is sure what submarine it could have been? Very odd - to render military honors to an enemy vessel in time of war!

hehe you need to contact Brady about this stuff. he would be thrilled! [:D]

fb.asp?m=683433&key=midgets

That is cause for concern![:)]

[Skyros]

In "Shattered Sword" it mentions Nisshin & Chiyoda as carring midgets and motor torpedo boats for use after capturing Midway. pg49

ORIGINAL: el cid again


I did not understand that two such ships sailed at Midway! One of these ships - Nisshin - seems not to have an air group. She had no job when the war begun - apparently she was having her stern ramp modified for the midgets - and while lots of sources have her at Midway - none credit her with planes. The plane unit assigned to her by stock and CHS show up on the official IJN lists for BOTH the war start and Midway as being ashore - and in too small a quantity to be of much value (only 6). Since I have created a midget device for use with subs, I modified Nisshin to be a CL that has 12 of these plus capacity for 12 floatplanes (and no assigned group). This because at Midway she had only 12 midgets aboard. One of the Chitose's had another squadron of them.

I