Melee: does it EVER work??

campekenobi · Post by **campekenobi** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 8:53 pm

It seems whenever I try to move my troops on the same hex as the enemy, then then do the ALT-M, it says something about "may only initiate melee if in good status."

Now I read that as if my troops are NOT 'pinned' or 'retreating.'... am I missing something?? What puts them in good status? I've never successfully melee'd yet. HELP!

Mikimoto · Post by **Mikimoto** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 8:57 pm

Originally posted by Sniper-for-hire:
It seems whenever I try to move my troops on the same hex as the enemy, then then do the ALT-M, it says something about "may only initiate melee if in good status."

Now I read that as if my troops are NOT 'pinned' or 'retreating.'... am I missing something?? What puts them in good status? I've never successfully melee'd yet. HELP!

Melee and overrun worked fine in version 6.1. In version 7.0 and 7.1 patch, I have no idea. Sorry.

Brutto-Bob · Post by **Brutto-Bob** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 9:25 pm

Ciao,

to overrun and melee success, your unit must be in low suppression. So rally unit an then melee.

I think that the game also makes one experience check, so less experienced unit may fail overrun and melee.

Tomanbeg · Post by **Tomanbeg** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 9:27 pm

Originally posted by Sniper-for-hire:
It seems whenever I try to move my troops on the same hex as the enemy, then then do the ALT-M, it says something about "may only initiate melee if in good status."

Now I read that as if my troops are NOT 'pinned' or 'retreating.'... am I missing something?? What puts them in good status? I've never successfully melee'd yet. HELP!

I don't know if it's real or if it's me( my bad luck is famous) but things I have to do to get melee. You have to ease into the pool. When ever I charge across the ground to get into the melee hex, it won't work. But If I'm in the next hex and ease into the melee hex it works fine. This means that the unit you are attacking by melee has to be very suppressed. Retreating or routed. If it is just pinned, you will get shot up to bad to melee. I'm going to find out about dropping off a unit from a track and then doing a melee later tonight. I have an opponent in the ideal position. A Tiger on a reverse slope with something loaded. I can get a track there with 8 mp's(about 30%). I worked a 60mm mortar up to a .5 delay which means if he doesn't move his Tiger, the 60 hits after his movement phase is over. So It should knock the riders off the Tiger and get it buttoned up. I'm planning on shooting up the Inf at zero range then doing a melee on the Tiger. Don't know if you can melee tanks, and I expect the Tiger to get a shot at 1 hex. If that Special op fire hits my track, it's moot of course. I expect it won't work, since the reason that the cammo group was formed was some players decided that this tactic was ahistorical and gaming the system. So I doubt that Matrix, which is the part of cammo group that thinks driving a track into a position, having your armored inf jump out and drop grenades in the foxholes never happened, is not going to allow it to make a comeback after all that work. But I will try anyway, it's just a game.
T.( I think 'good status 'means NO suppression of any sort. I'm not sure there is a connection between suppression points 'pinned', 'retreating' and 'routed' conditions anymore. if it is, it is not linear.)

Grenadier · Post by **Grenadier** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:48 am

Originally posted by Tomanbeg:

I expect it won't work, since the reason that the cammo group was formed was some players decided that this tactic was ahistorical and gaming the system. So I doubt that Matrix, which is the part of cammo group that thinks driving a track into a position, having your armored inf jump out and drop grenades in the foxholes never happened, is not going to allow it to make a comeback after all that work.

SP Camo Group was started before Matrix games and evryone now in key positions at matrix was part of SP Camo Group including the Kunel, David Heath, Nick Papp, Paul Vebber, etc.

The primary reason for the split was a difference in the future development of SPWW2. Some wanted to stay with a DOS based program and the rest wanted to adapt SPWW2 to Windows and use the more modern SP3 executable, hence Matrix Games

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 6:28 am

I don't think you can melee tanks.

Also the successful melees I done were infantry (not all infantry for example machine guns and reconaissance can't melee) vs. infantry.

One more thing: you need not only to be in a very low surpression status but to have many movement points left to be able to engage a melee. Maybe that was the problem...

But I haven't tried a melee yet in v7...

[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: RichardTheFirst ]</p>

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:20 am

Melee works fine in v7 and v7.1 beta.

rich12545 · Post by **rich12545** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:35 am

I just finished a scenario playing the marines on guadalcanal. Meleed maybe 6-8 times. Won some, lost some. But it worked fine. Ver 7.

V-man · Post by **V-man** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 3:33 pm

Originally posted by Sniper-for-hire:
It seems whenever I try to move my troops on the same hex as the enemy, then then do the ALT-M, it says something about "may only initiate melee if in good status."

Now I read that as if my troops are NOT 'pinned' or 'retreating.'... am I missing something?? What puts them in good status? I've never successfully melee'd yet. HELP!

A good way to tell if you can is by moving intot he enemy hex - if you can still move (same turn) then you can probably melee. But I don't advise it - it's going to cost you men. If you *must*, use elite troops like Rangers or Commandoes.

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:12 pm

Melee is a very nice feature which I actually use quite a lot. Meleeing routed units is usually fairly safe, and can save you a lot of time if the units happen to be Japs sitting in rough/covered terrain which are very tedious to clean out otherwise.

To melee you need to:
- Be in a good state suppression-wise
- Have shots left/a weapon
- Have movement left

As a side-note, what you should _not_ do, in a recent PBEM turn I played.. one of my German paratrooper squad attempted to melee a Russian paratrooper squad (both in ready status, the Russian unit actually landed in my hex <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ). 9 Germans gone and 10 Russians, both squads dispersing!

richmonder · Post by **richmonder** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 6:53 pm

wow. That sounds like shootout at O.K. Corral!

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Tue Feb 05, 2002 9:01 pm

Melee is certainly possible in v7.0 and 7.1, you just might not care for the results. I've done it and don't consider it worthwhile per the above - there doesn't seem enough difference between the unit which initiates the melee and the one defending.

Now overrun with AFV's: I love it! Use it - like we used to say in Chicago: Vote early and vote often! - all the time and absolutely adore the sound effects. The recommendation is the tank crew be pretty well endowed in the experience and morale departments. If they are go to it, make the enemy into - pardon the expression - "tread grease".

That's not nice but who said war is supposed to be nice, aside from a wimp or two on CNN?

Bing

campekenobi · Post by **campekenobi** » Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:04 am

Originally posted by Bing:

Now overrun with AFV's: I love it!

Bing

Can you please tell me how to "overrun" and waht AFV's are? Sorry.

Kuroshio Apocal · Post by **Kuroshio Apocal** » Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:31 am

Hit Alt-O while in teh same hex with infantry or arty or AT guns. AFVs = tanks = Armored fighting vehicles.

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Wed Feb 06, 2002 12:44 am

I beieve the reason players have trouble with overrun is they try to drive into the enemy hex from two or more hexes away. From what I've seen it can't be done - your AFV must be in good order, not suppressed, have all its movement points AND in the hex adjacent to the fellas about to be tread grease.

When the NEXT turn starts, in you go. HIt the Alt-O and it might be the most fun you get in W@W.

A friend of mine was a Sheridan driver in Germany. He says he thinks the Army didn't even call the Sheridan an "armored" fighting vehicle. Didn't have much to speak of. Did have a nuclear arty round, though. Carried as standard equipment in the field, from what my friend says. Probably not ALL the time, but as often as not.

"Tank" is a slang term anyway, created so that TV announcers can make fools of themselves. (That's a joke, son.)

Boing

lnp4668 · Post by **lnp4668** » Wed Feb 06, 2002 1:08 am

Halftracks actually are better at overun than tanks. They have higher movement rate, so able to get in close and personal more often. I usually able to overun twice if I start out relatively close to the enemy.

Melee is often not worth it, unless the enemy is really suppress.

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Wed Feb 06, 2002 1:17 am

Yes, HT's work fine. I have totally smashed AT 88 installations with a fully tracked AFV. THAT is a real experience and makes other frustrations worth enduring.

Question: Who recorded the yells and moans for the overrun sound file?? Just curious - I love it. Meant to be funny and IS I think, though the idea really isn't all that humorous I suppose.

Bing