Seeing through smoke in 7.0

Fuerte · Post by **Fuerte** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:46 am

We are playing King Of The Hill scenario by e-mail (not a very good scenario for PBEM, btw, German is so much better). It seems that I (German) can see through the smoke that the desperate advancing US infantry units are firing in front of them. The weather is clear, visibility 30. Once one unit fired smoke twice, still I was able to see it, like there was no smoke at all. Bug or not?

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:09 am

I'm sure someone else can tell you more definitively, but I recall there was a time where I noticed basically the same thing, but given how I almost never use smoke and haven't played SPWAW in a bit, I can't tell whether it's still going on or not. The thing I noticed was that infantry smoke worked only sometimes (though always produced a smoke graphic), as though some of the smoke grenades were duds. It also seemed that those fired from artillery never were dud, and I can't tell you if direct-fire smoke from AFVs did the same.

BjörnR · Post by **BjörnR** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:31 am

I think that later versions has made the smoke more variable in density.
Thus it is possible to see through several hexes of smoke, especially in good visibility (like in your case).
I also think that the smoke, even if you can see through it, makes hitting and spotting less probable.

Nikanor · Post by **Nikanor** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 3:11 am

IIRC in 'King of the Hill' Germans are sitting on a ridge that is quite higher than the plain Americans are moving through. That means that their LOS goes above the smoke.

Rick Borovec · Post by **Rick Borovec** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 4:07 am

Seeing through smoke has everything to do with the visability setting.

I just got done with a PBEM game where the visability setting was high, and it took alot of smoke to cover my advance.

Now I'm playing another PBEM game where the visability is set alot lower and even one smoke shell blocks visability completley.

I don't know what setting is the cut off for seeing or not, but I don know that it make a hugh difference.

Boro

Resisti · Post by **Resisti** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:44 pm

Fuerte,

I think two of the main reasons can be:

1)the height; as correctly stated Germans in this scenario are on the top of an hill;

2)which unit is popping smoke; if it is infantry it may well takes 2/3 smoke rounds to obscure LOS; remember they are throwing small smoke hand grenades, not big smoke arty shells.

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 7:01 pm

If visibilty is at or above 22 you can see thru 1 hex of trees and you need 2 INF smoke grenades to block LOS.

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 7:04 pm

Originally posted by BORO:
Seeing through smoke has everything to do with the visability setting.

I just got done with a PBEM game where the visability setting was high, and it took alot of smoke to cover my advance.

Now I'm playing another PBEM game where the visability is set alot lower and even one smoke shell blocks visability completley.

I don't know what setting is the cut off for seeing or not, but I don know that it make a hugh difference.

Boro

Yeah, *very* huge <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

john g · Post by **john g** » Mon Feb 11, 2002 7:09 pm

Originally posted by Fuerte:
We are playing King Of The Hill scenario by e-mail (not a very good scenario for PBEM, btw, German is so much better). It seems that I (German) can see through the smoke that the desperate advancing US infantry units are firing in front of them. The weather is clear, visibility 30. Once one unit fired smoke twice, still I was able to see it, like there was no smoke at all. Bug or not?

You might be able to see through it, but it not as if it was no smoke, there will be some change in the ability to hit through it. Each little bit of smoke reduces the chance to hit.

Be aware that when a unit throws smoke using the smoke button, it makes a lot less smoke than if it is retreating and throws smoke to cover the retreat.
thanks, John.

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Tue Feb 12, 2002 12:30 am

Paul has also said that if you throw smoke and sit there it is not very effective. That is the enemy can still shoot at your last known location. You should pop smoke then move. However, US smoke doctrine says that smoke should really be used on the firing unit, not the target. Do you have smoke available from arty? If so use it on the Germans directly.

Kanon Fodder · Post by **Kanon Fodder** » Tue Feb 12, 2002 1:01 am

I have had several (annoying) instances where I have put down infantry smoke, hoping for additional protection, only to trigger additional OP fire and take more casualties.
<img src="mad.gif" border="0">

Fuerte · Post by **Fuerte** » Tue Feb 12, 2002 1:05 am

Thanks for all the answers! It must be the clear weather and good visibility. In the previous game we had no problems with infantry smoke. This scenario seems to be VERY bad for U.S. because the smoke has very little effect and because I can see so well from the hill. Whenever I see an U.S. tank it gets killed immediately by the AT guns on the hill. I feel sorry for my opponent... it says in the scenario description that this is best played as U.S. meaning of course that against AI.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Tue Feb 12, 2002 1:06 am

Smoke as "deflector shields" was one of my all time most hated things about previous SP games. SO smoke "levels" in a hex contribute to obscuring what is behind. Moving up and poping smoke after teh enemy has fired is generally useless. You want to pop smoke and run away. IT generally takes several infantry or smoke discharger "shots" to completely obscure LOS.