Longest DEI have held out

[niceguy2005]

Not counting Timor, I'm curious what is the longest the DEI have held out in PBEM games. It seems to me that many Japanese players are slower than I would be finishing off the Dutch. Also, what is the quickest that anyone has completed this conquest?

[aletoledo]

I usually finish off the dutch in febuary 42. Timor in my current PBEM was too fortified for me to take at all though.

[rtrapasso]

It's still holding out in "Fear and Loathing" AAR - and they are almost into August 1942. i suspect that it will NOT fall (well, not entirely...)

[denisonh]

Should rename thread "Longest time Japanese Player put off taking DEI".

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: denisonh

Should rename thread "Longest time Japanese Player put off taking DEI".

True, the Japanese player is in the drivers seat. But it also depends on how hard the allied player fights for it. If the Allies evacuate everything it will fall a lot sooner obviously

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

It's still holding out in "Fear and Loathing" AAR - and they are almost into August 1942. i suspect that it will NOT fall (well, not entirely...)

Yep, Im thoroughly enjoying that AAR. In one of my PBEMS it is mid April and Java is about to fall, I'm sure Palmebang won't be far behind.

[Nikademus]

seems to me that the Timor gambit just provides the Japan player with an easier option vs. Northern Oz. [&:] [&:]

[Feinder]

I tried fortifying Timor with in my PBEM game vs. Erstad. Didn't do me a bit of good. Timor simply got pummelled by every bombardment TF and LBA in the SRA. It took him maybe an extra month, but it Timor still succombed to the Japanese might.

I won't do that again.

North Oz really isn't threatened at this point (10-42), but "Fortress Timor", wasn't.

-F-

[Nikademus]

Kind of what i was figuring too. Timor's rough terrain makes it attractive for a ground slugfest but only if the japanese navy and airforce allow it to be one. Pummeling the bases with air and sea forces is exactly what i'd do to counter such an aggressive move by the Allied player. Fighting in the enemy's backyard is never advisable unless your holding all the cards.

then again, i usually hit Timor first as a prelude to taking Java. (pincer movement)

[Elladan]

The key to holding any part od DEI seems to be a reinforcement with troops from Malaya and possibly some other places. Do you have any plan for efficient evacuation of Malaya/Singapore ? That means without excessive losses in shipping and with good part of ground forces intact. Is it ever worth a try?

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I tried fortifying Timor with in my PBEM game vs. Erstad. Didn't do me a bit of good. Timor simply got pummelled by every bombardment TF and LBA in the SRA. It took him maybe an extra month, but it Timor still succombed to the Japanese might.

I won't do that again.

North Oz really isn't threatened at this point (10-42), but "Fortress Timor", wasn't.

-F-

This is what I saw happening. Seems to me that Timor is a no man's land. I like it when the Japanese stack lots of planes and troops there for me to bomb from my nice safe, nearly malaria free bases in N. Oz.

In fact, in my first PBEM game I repositioned my forces from Timor to Java. I like this strategy and would probably do it again.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Elladan

Do you have any plan for efficient evacuation of Malaya/Singapore ? That means without excessive losses in shipping and with good part of ground forces intact. Is it ever worth a try?

Yes, the Batavia express works great...that's a FT TF from Batavia to Sing. But I don't like to pull too many troops out of Sing early. Everyday that Sing stands is HUGE for the allies. I usually rush at the end of the seige to pull out whatever survivors I can - though some consider this a little gamey.

[Nikademus]

I never evac. I fight to the death. Make the invader pay. Besides, a good Japan player will make you pay for every AP/AK you try to sneak into the hot zones. (I know i do!)

[Ron Saueracker]

December 42 in my PBEM and I still hold half of Java.[:)]

[Andy Mac]

In one game Java held until June 43 and had a large proportion of the IJA there just long enough for my CW army to land on Malaya and secure Singapore !!!

It was an early game and we both made mistakes

[BLUESBOB]

It's currently June 27, 1942 in the PBEM I'm playing, and I still hold Maumere, Waingapu, Kendari, Amboina, and, of course, Timor. Once the Japs tried landing at Amboina. A surface fleet caught a Jap TF flat-footed there, and sank five DD's, an AK, and a PC. I lost the Canberra. He landed regardless, and I fought for it with less than a 1000 troops, with support from 48 C-47's and 48 B-17's in Darwin. After several weeks of steady fighting, the Japs escaped on some APD's (I assume). I believe he landed at least two NLF's, but I'm not positive. It's been the Dutch forces shining moment in my campaign so far.

[niceguy2005]

Impressive Ron

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

December 42 in my PBEM and I still hold half of Java.[:)]

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

I never evac. I fight to the death. Make the invader pay. Besides, a good Japan player will make you pay for every AP/AK you try to sneak into the hot zones. (I know i do!)

He means he makes his troops fight...the bunny runs like h#$&. [:'(]

[niceguy2005]

Obviously several players are making long campaigns out of DEI, is that because JPN isn't pushing hard enough?

Still haven't heard from the JPN fanboys. HOw quickly can DEI be taken?

[Nemo121]

If the Japanese player is willing to give up operations elsewhere then all of the DEI ( excepting a couple of unimportant places in Sumatra) could be the Japanese player's by the end of December 1942. If it is desired to capture the DEI resources intact then it will prove essential to commit the battleline ( or at least a very large portion of it) to bombardment of the defenders ( thus robbing them of the engineers that tend to sabotage the oilfields, resources etc.)


If operating under the assumption that British and Dutch forces would not attack Japanese task forces at sea until their aggressive intent was confirmed ( which can only be conclusively done by allowing them to land) then the important areas in DEI ( areas rich in oil and resources AND those areas from which it is possible to easily bomb/interdict these resource/oil sources) can be taken by the end of December with the committment of 6 Independent Brigades, the battleline, 2 aviation regiments, 1 parachute regiment, 6 to 8 BFs ( depending on the amount of fighter cover you want for your convoys) plus 4 or 5 NLFs/SNLFs to take Timor etc quickly. No more than 4 Sentais of Oscar would be required to essentially neutralise Singapore/Batavian aerial strike capabilities.

Obviously in this instance the capture of the DEI would have to be part of a wider plan both supporting and being supported by the attacks in Malaysia and the isolation of Allied forces in the Philippines such that the committment of a small number of Zero and Betty Daitais within the DEI AOA but tasked with supporting these attacks would be extremely beneficial.



If Japanese forces are assumed to be able to come no closer than 300 miles from Allied bases (excepting in areas where they have land or carrier-based air cover) it should still be possible to take the entirety of the DEI by mid-January by utilising a few more Zero Daitais and a viral method of expansion ( e.g.) transports land at Mendano. Major forces are some 400 miles east of the Mendano landing. Once this occurs these forces can, within 3 to 4 days, make their way to Kendari, Amboina, Sorong etc, land, establish airbases and refueling/replenishment depots for the battleline. Utilising the battleline with LRCAP to absorb bomber attacks Batavia could be quickly reduced and 3 Regiments landed. This will ensure the securing of Java itself. Once that is done it will be a simple matter to close the vice by taking Southern Borneo and escorting troops to Palembang/Teloekboetang under cover of the battleline. It is, of course, assumed that Singapore will have been rendered largely impotent by army bomber strikes from the Malaysian peninsula.


I know that may seem fast but I think the potential is there. I missed the timescale of the first option outlines above by a fortnight because of some newbie mistakes in my invasion planning but definitely it could have been wrapped up in 3 weeks instead of 5 and I think that a more temporally spaced phasing than occured in my game could actually accelerate the capture of DEI so that even without benefit of any first turn warps etc all important areas would fall before mid-January.


So, 2.5 weeks with the benefit of nil Allied reaction until landings are confirmed and no more than 5 weeks ( probably as little as 4) if what seems to be the common house rule of requiring Japanese TFs to be more than 300 miles from Allied bases on December 7th is required.

The rate of loss during this time will be very high but overall losses will be significantly lower than for a long drawn-out campaign. Certainly a long drawn-out campaign will attrit the Allied player to a great extent also but Allied productive capacity makes the attrition of any of their resources save carriers, battleships, submarines, whole combat units ( with no fragments for rebuilding) and four-engined bombers, irrelevant and thus the longer campaign has nothing to recommend it except a smaller RATE of casualties... which is an entirely illusory "benefit" to the Japanese player.