stealing home

[redeck]

anyone see this kind of thing happening?

I just got Ricky Henderson on my Tigers for my long running ASC. and for kicks decided to see how many bases he could steal me in a game. well the answer so far is in one game. first he walked then i had him steal 2nd, and 3rd. the old 4ball triple. and so for more kicks i sent him stealing home. safe on the play! how fun. but then his next at bat after a single, i did the same thing 2nd 3rd and home, safe again. stole home 2x in one game, the again the next game. seems to me a flaw if ANY player can steal home at will. anyone else see this in their games?

[jimair1]

I don't know how the designer determined stealing percentages. However, I agree with you that stealing is wayyyyyyyy to easy. My request for a pitch out goes unheeded. And stealing home 2x in one game. Ridiculous, even for Ricky Henderson

[redeck]

i dont think a pitchout is nesesary, but certainly a change in the % seems needed. the Rickey did steal 6 bases in that game, he was also thrown out a couple times as well, but stealing home should be FAR haarder than 2nd base.

[puresimmer]

Pitchouts are in PS 2007 and stealing has been adjusted as well.

[redeck]

anouther satisfied puresim customer.......what a great world we live in [:D]

[Amaroq]

I'll chime in with a beta-tester's perspective on that.

One of the early beta builds did not (yet) include the pitchout, and I had a guy with Speed 75. I ordered him to steal every time he was on first. He was platooning at CF, and got only about 400 at bats, but had more than double the number of steals of the next-best player in the league and about a .833 percentage.

I've started another season, same player, but with the pitchouts and steal adjustments, and though he can still steal second, it's become enough of a gamble that I'm forced to think about whether its worth the risk or not.

...

redeck, with that sort of experimental mind, why weren't you on the beta-test team? We could've used that sort of approach! [:)]

[redeck]

Amaroq, I didnt feel like I had the time to devote to beta testing, although i would have loved to. I have 3 girls under the age of 3 1/2, which i am incharge of most all day until mom gets home from work, and so inbetween diaper changes and feedings, I managed to find a new job about 2 drivings hours from home, so before i even start that job, ive been looking for and now buying a home in the town, (so far from detroit im afraid i will never make it to anouther MLB [:(]) then theres that dern algebra class i been taking at the comunity college, (Finals tonight! [:@]) then theres diaper changings and feedings....... to shorten my long story I use what free time i have, (which is really after about midnight when i should be in bed) to play puresim a short while (to long if you ask the rest of the family) my wargamming is nonexistant these days and many of those litle figures go unpainted (sigh...thanks shawn)

I made time today to post here by lettinem cry for a little bit LOL

hey, and i thought being laid off would give me tons of time to hobbizize HAAAAAAAA!

but really, wish i had or at least percived that i had more time to have joined the beta team. I would just have been affraid that i would get caught up in diapers-life to make a contribution. there are weeks where i dont get to puresim and then there are weeks when i can find all the time i want. just dont know which will be which until the weeks about half over LOL

[Amaroq]

LoL - fair enough! It did wind up requiring a lot of time to contribute at a high level - Shaun was cranking out new builds every day or two, and it is time-consuming to write up a good bug report (as opposed to a one-sentence description that doesn't help the developer find the problem!). But that sort of analytical, let me try this and see if its broken, approach is exactly the mentality a beta tester needs - so keep it in mind for the future!

[redeck]

I wil and thanks, by the way Rickey did it again, the 3 base single and then stole home, the forth time this is rookie season LOL

[Amaroq]

What year is his rookie season?

I'll import him into the beta build and see how he does.

[redeck]

i think its 1979 or 80

[redeck]

Amaroq,
i am leaving for my new digs tomorow morning, and dont know if i will be online again for atleast a week if not a month or more. so if i dont reply to your post soon...

well read you all later

[JudgeDredd]

Starting my education on this...so here goes...
1. "first he walked then i had him steal 2nd, and 3rd. the old 4ball triple" eh? Steal a base is when he runs before the actual pitch, right? So you were able to get a guy to steal 2nd,3rd and home in the same move?
2. Pitchouts - what are they? Are they when the pitcher thinks the guys making a move and throughs the ball to the base he thinks will get the player out?

Thx

[dwwindsor]

I'll take a crack at this for you Judge.

1. Your concept is correct but stealing two or more bases at the same time is unheard of. What was being described is this - runner steals second base. Pitcher may or may not have made a pitch but at least gets reset and goes back into his wind-up. Runner now steals third. Repeat the above one more time as the runner now steals home and scores a run.

Now for some complexity. There are times when a runner goes to steal second and winds-up on third during the same play. Here is what usually happens. The pitcher steps off the rubber (there is a piece of rubber - I don't know the dimensions off the top of my head - on top of the pitchers mound which the pitchers foot must be in contact with whilst making a pitch) and throws the ball widly to the first basemen. By the time the ball is retrieved the runner has advanced all the way to third base. More common is to have the catcher while trying to throw the runner out throw the ball past the infielders into the outfield, or the infielder flubs the catch. The scoring rule for these types of situations is to award the runner one stolen base and one of the fielders an error allowing the runner to advance the extra base.

2. A pitchout is executed when the defense thinks the base runner is going to attempt a steal. The pitcher throws a fast ball (gets to the plate quicker than any other pitch and easire for the catcher to catch) to the outside of the batter and the catcher is already getting ready to recieve and then throw out the runner.

If the pitcher instead of throwing to the plate steps off of the rubber and thows to the man covering the base the runner is at that is called a pick-off attempt. The object is to catch the runner leaning the wrong way and have the fielder tag him out before the runner gets back to the bag.

If the pitcher executes this incorrectly or fails to step off of the rubber a balk is called. But we can discuss that latter.

I hope this helps you some.

[Amaroq]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Starting my education on this...so here goes...
1. "first he walked then i had him steal 2nd, and 3rd. the old 4ball triple" eh? Steal a base is when he runs before the actual pitch, right? So you were able to get a guy to steal 2nd,3rd and home in the same move?
2. Pitchouts - what are they? Are they when the pitcher thinks the guys making a move and throughs the ball to the base he thinks will get the player out?

Thx

dwwindsor gave a solid explanation.

The most 'typical' stolen base works like this
- the manager gives a "green light" - telling the player that he MAY steal, but is not required to.
- the runner 'leads off' the base - he's not required to be standing on it, and could in fact, just start running - which worked back in like 1895, but doesn't work now!
- the pitcher starts his wind-up, and the runner attempts to time his 'jump' so that he starts running towards second just as the pitcher starts delivering a pitch towards home plate.
- it takes time for the pitch to reach the plate
- after catching it, most catchers have to stand up and step 'around' the batter to get enough on the throw to have a chance of beating the runner
- the catcher throws out towards second base, but it takes time for the throw to reach second (a long throw, which might not be accurate)
- it takes time for the shortstop or second baseman to catch the ball and move their mitt - they have to tag the runner with the mitt containing the ball, in order to get him out.
- the runner slides, trying to slide in under the tag.

A fast runner is counting on all of those 'time' components adding up to enough for him to touch the base (with a foot or a hand) before the tag is applied. He has his best chance if its an 'off speed' pitch, a slow pitch usually low in the strike zone and harder for the catcher to judge and catch; he also has his best chance if the catcher's throw is high, and shaded to the left (third base side) of second base. He has much less chance if it was a high fastball, and the catcher's throw is low and shaded towards the right (first base side) of second base.

The pitchout, then, is a fastball thrown intentionally high and outside - the catcher has to stand up to catch it, so he is already standing, and has already stepped around the batter, by the time the ball reaches his mitt, so its minimized the amount of time all of that takes. Of course, it concedes one of the four 'balls' which would result in a walk.

In real baseball, a manager would call for a pitchout only on certain strike counts - obviously not with three balls and no strikes (as it would just walk the batter), but might be willing to on an 0-1 count or 0-2 count (no balls, one or two strikes, respectively - counts are always listed in that order).

PureSim has phrased it 'call for a pitch-out if the count is appropriate' - so you might ask for a pitchout, but never see one because your pitcher never threw a strike - and you might even see a stolen base against, say, on a 2-0 count, because your pitcher had to concentrate on getting a strike rather than 'holding the runner'.

[Sonny]

Rod Carew's seven steals of home in 1969 is a single-season total surpassed only by Ty Cobb.


Of course if Henderson keeps up this pace he will steal home approx. 160 times in one year.[:D]


Not sure but I think Carew stole home twice in one game.

[redeck]

wow i had no idea Carew had such home theivery skills, i would have had him snatching plate for my tigers in the 6 seasons he played 2nd for us had i only known[:D]

[Sonny]

Ah, no he didn't steal home twice in one inning. Together he and Tovar stole home in one inning which is a record.

He also stole 2nd, 3rd and home in one inning.

[redeck]

the 1981 season has begun, and with Detroit in Boston for the Sox season opener, Rickey has tried to steal 2nd base twice now both times being gunned down by 2nd year man Boston catcher Mike Scioscia!

poor Rickey

[JudgeDredd]

Thx for the replies. Most was understood and taken onboard.