Stripping the Italian and West Fronts

matt.buttsworth · Post by **matt.buttsworth** » Wed Jul 11, 2001 9:56 pm

I just checked Lorenzo's finding that there is no need to keep Panzer or SS units in the Italian or West front and he is definitely right. Pzjag units work.
At a cost of six infantry divisions from OKW to keep Italian front up to strength, I then inserted one Pzjag unit in West and Italian fronts to free up the Panzer, Motorized divisions and brigades and other units there which I all transferred to 8th Italian army so I could count them. At the start of turn 2, with no surrenders occurring and a strength of 3,000 plus in West front and 1512 in Italian front, I had in the Eigth Army, 2 German panzer divisions, 3 infantry divisions, 2 Panzer Brigades, 2 Italian Panzer divisions, 1 motorized division, 3 infantry divisions and one airborne division (italians can go to East front and die - they disappear when Italian front shatters anyway) with a strength of 558 tanks, 428 artillery guns, 402 anti-tank guns, 119 flak guns and 2,014 squads.
A huge plus for Barbarossa which I would use every time I played German!
The question is should this bug be closed (very difficult as the use of panzer brigades not SS unit in West front is built into the 1941 scenario which is why the bug is there), or should we just tell everyone and print it in the player notes for the next version so that everyone is on an even footing in stripping these two fronts.

Matthew Buttsworth

Mist · Post by **Mist** » Thu Jul 12, 2001 1:47 am

My opinion is to make minimal requirement of ready tanks(n_tanks*exp*read) instead of attached tank units. But it depends on how hard is it to implement. It would make things more logical and player will not be able to preserve full front strength by attaching weak tank units there. Minimal ready aircraft(n_operational_aircraft*exp) requirement would also be nice. but it depends again.

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:02 am

Hi all

Has enyone tried using the german Air transports to up the west and med fronts?
They seem to work, is this wrong?

Nick

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Thu Jul 12, 2001 12:39 pm

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:
Has enyone tried using the german Air transports to up the west and med fronts?
They seem to work, is this wrong?

Interesting discovery. I would guess it shouldn't happen because its not realistic, since for most of the game the two Fronts represent areas that are off the map.

On the other hand, there is no advantage to doing this, and the readiness boost will be lost within 2 or 3 turns.

Mist · Post by **Mist** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:35 pm

Ontopic: This definitely should be redecided. I've just tried following thing. I've stripped those fronts from pz divisions and moved there some 0 strength JPz-1b Bns. Result: strength DOUBLES BACK!!

)) vvvvery funy! I vote for minimal panzers prenence at least. Fronts work ok at later war(esp in 1944) after German experience starts to drop and HQ capacity is not enough to mantain infantry front without shatterring.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 12:47 pm

Originally posted by Mist:
Ontopic: This definitely should be redecided. I've just tried following thing. I've stripped those fronts from pz divisions and moved there some 0 strength JPz-1b Bns. Result: strength DOUBLES BACK!! )) vvvvery funy! I vote for minimal panzers prenence at least. Fronts work ok at later war(esp in 1944) after German experience starts to drop and HQ capacity is not enough to mantain infantry front without shatterring.

I'm still waiting on Arnaud to answer my question of why this was changed for the fronts.

matt.buttsworth · Post by **matt.buttsworth** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 12:53 pm

Don't think it was changed. I think the bug was there from the outset. Not Arnaud's fault but Grisby's.

Svar · Post by **Svar** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 9:17 pm

Originally posted by Matthew Buttsworth:
Don't think it was changed. I think the bug was there from the outset. Not Arnaud's fault but Grisby's.

Matthew,

You are right, I just checked version 1.1 and found that the requirement in 1943 is still 2 Panzer units in the West Front. When you drop to 1 Panzer unit, the CV is halved and when you increase back to 2 Panzer units, the CV is doubled.

Svar

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 9:13 am

Originally posted by Svar:

Matthew,

You are right, I just checked version 1.1 and found that the requirement in 1943 is still 2 Panzer units in the West Front.

Is that regular panzer divisions or elite SS? So basically you can strip all elite SS out and just leave a couple of banged up regular army panzer divisions? Good grief. Another bug for the list. If it weren't for Arnaud letting us see the Front strengths, this problem may never have been noticed.

Svar · Post by **Svar** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 11:24 am

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

Is that regular panzer divisions or elite SS? So basically you can strip all elite SS out and just leave a couple of banged up regular army panzer divisions? Good grief. Another bug for the list. If it weren't for Arnaud letting us see the Front strengths, this problem may never have been noticed.

Ed,

That was 2 regular Panzer divisions.

Svar

matt.buttsworth · Post by **matt.buttsworth** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 7:00 pm

worse one pzjag battion for Italy and two for west front will hold it.
Problem later is strength as holding it without panzers requires too many infantry divsions.
I do not see this as a major bug. Just an interesting way to give the Germans a boost in 1941. 1942 on there has to be more strength in Italian and West fronts anyway and that needs Panzer divisions.