Recon Vehicles

Rundstedt · Post by **Rundstedt** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 3:35 pm

In what way do recon vehicles assist in combat? Is it good to have many recon vehicles in a unit or are they simply useless things on wheels (or tracks)? Are there any differenses between Soviet recon and German recon?

I understand mostly armored formations are equipped with recon vehicles, but also cavalry divisions have a small recon capability as well. Why?

When I move factories to the Urals, what's the most important thing to move? Heavy Industry? Recon? Tanks? Airplanes? What?

Regards, Rundstedt

heiks · Post by **heiks** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 4:31 pm

Originally posted by Rundstedt:
In what way do recon vehicles assist in combat? Is it good to have many recon vehicles in a unit or are they simply useless things on wheels (or tracks)? Are there any differenses between Soviet recon and German recon?

I understand mostly armored formations are equipped with recon vehicles, but also cavalry divisions have a small recon capability as well. Why?

When I move factories to the Urals, what's the most important thing to move? Heavy Industry? Recon? Tanks? Airplanes? What?

Regards, Rundstedt

Recon:

Well, not quite sure, but at least they contribute to the combat value of the unit.
I think that recon vehicles are generic so there is no difference between Soviet and German.

Urals:
Heavy industry affects the OP-total of your armies, so some of that should be moved. On the other hand there is never enough artillery so some of that would be nice. Also you could use more tanks, more fighters, more bombers, etc. So it really is a difficult choice. I personally would give priority to heavy industry then artillery then tanks and finally, if there is an opportunity, the fighters and bombers. But since you can only move a limited amount of factories (nine?) you have to choose.

Rundstedt · Post by **Rundstedt** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 4:53 pm

Unfortunately, I didn't know about the "nine-factory limit" before I moved to the Urals (well, not me of course

).

Well, I still don't understand why I need recon vehicles.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 2:42 pm

Originally posted by Rundstedt:
Well, I still don't understand why I need recon vehicles.

Have you read the manual yet? Find the section Combat->Combat Sequence and start reading.

Rundstedt · Post by **Rundstedt** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 2:48 pm

DO I HAVE TO READ?!

Are you serious?? Do I actually have to use my eyes and draw my own conclusions?!

But that means I'll have to stop bugging you guys at this forum, and we wouldn't want that to happen, now wuld we?

OK, I give up, I'll go through it one more time...

Regards, Rundstedt

Rundstedt · Post by **Rundstedt** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 2:56 pm

Aaaaaah! Now I see!

Only the attacker benefits from recon vehicles. Correct? The conclusion is that it is only necessary to have recon vehicles in attacking units, while defending units don't need them at all.

Regards, Rundstedt

SoleSurvivor · Post by **SoleSurvivor** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 3:43 pm

Historically the German mid-war recon units often consisted of either rebuilt early German tank designs (Pz I & II) Or new vehicles based on their chassis. Thus they should be seen as crappy tanks that lose combat value every year.

Rundstedt · Post by **Rundstedt** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 3:52 pm

So, recon units were simply "expendable"? They obviously didn't have the ability to defend against attacks (unless from lightly armed infantry without AT-weapons), and were most likely prone to ambushes since the crews travelled inside these small vehicles. Am I right? Why the heck did they use recon units then and not aircraft only to spot enemy units?

Regards, Rundstedt

MagnusOlsson · Post by **MagnusOlsson** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 11:36 pm

Originally posted by Rundstedt:
Why the heck did they use recon units then and not aircraft only to spot enemy units?

Regards, Rundstedt

Well, there's about one million different reasons for using recon vehicles. I believe that you are about to enter the armed forces of Sweden (it's gonna be you, an old man and a mad dog) soon, so perhaps you'll learn a few of them there. Anyway, try to recon a forest with a Storch. Or determine road quality, or find places to cross a river, or find supply etc etc...

/Magnus

Rundstedt · Post by **Rundstedt** » Sat Aug 04, 2001 11:46 pm

Originally posted by MagnusOlsson:

Well, there's about one million different reasons for using recon vehicles. I believe that you are about to enter the armed forces of Sweden (it's gonna be you, an old man and a mad dog) soon, so perhaps you'll learn a few of them there. Anyway, try to recon a forest with a Storch. Or determine road quality, or find places to cross a river, or find supply etc etc...

/Magnus

Well, you got me there didn't you?

But do you agree that recon units must have been very vulnerable? It must have been somekind of punishment to be placed in a reconnaissance unit, since they probably died like flies. F ex in Saving Private Ryan a German recon-halftrack is shot to pieces by the yanks, and the time when Captain Gräbner attempted to cross the Arnhem Bridge by force. His ass got kicked "à la royale". I guess the recon units took the most losses during battle?

Regards, Rundstedt

kisslove · Post by **kisslove** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 12:05 am

Originally posted by Rundstedt:

Well, you got me there didn't you? But do you agree that recon units must have been very vulnerable? It must have been somekind of punishment to be placed in a reconnaissance unit, since they probably died like flies. F ex in Saving Private Ryan a German recon-halftrack is shot to pieces by the yanks, and the time when Captain Gräbner attempted to cross the Arnhem Bridge by force. His ass got kicked "à la royale". I guess the recon units took the most losses during battle?

Regards, Rundstedt

I don't think that germans were so stupid to let their poorly defended halftracks go directly to hardest combat situations as tanks ans SPG's, I believe they used them as mobile infantry support force or something...
(ple-e-ease don't kick me hard if Im wrong

)

SoleSurvivor · Post by **SoleSurvivor** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 12:16 am

if you drive along a road with one of the heavier recons you can assume that the road is secure for your valuable tanks. If it's not possible well then.... there's a lot of recon vehicles, right?

MagnusOlsson · Post by **MagnusOlsson** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 12:47 am

Originally posted by Rundstedt:

Well, you got me there didn't you? But do you agree that recon units must have been very vulnerable? It must have been somekind of punishment to be placed in a reconnaissance unit, since they probably died like flies. F ex in Saving Private Ryan a German recon-halftrack is shot to pieces by the yanks, and the time when Captain Gräbner attempted to cross the Arnhem Bridge by force. His ass got kicked "à la royale". I guess the recon units took the most losses during battle?

Regards, Rundstedt

Sure did

.
You use recon vehicles when it is 'safe to surf'. Same as a Fiesler Storch, you don't want to go up against a Yak-7 in one of those.
Hollywood likes to blow up things, regardless of how and why. Do not use SPR or Pearl Harbour as a Discovery Channel documentary

.

On the other hand, if you're in the Avant Garde, then it may not be 'safe to surf' but you will stand a good chance to survive anyway. In WiR a hex is either occupied or not occupied but in real life, there is a lot of air between units. Also, the front line is not a binary thing, natural obstacles (like a dense forrest or a deep lake) are part of the defence line, and in these grey areas, an enemy recon force will be able to wheel around without getting noticed. Normally, a recon unit will discover the enemy forces before they themselves are discovered. And that, incidentally, are one of their tasks.

Getting back to WiR, the impact of Recon Vehicles could be better implemented. it would be nice if a plaethora of recon vehicles would reward you with accurate information about enemy units (such as strength, experience, readiness, type of equipment etc). I do not think it is so today.

Rundstedt · Post by **Rundstedt** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 1:25 am

Originally posted by MagnusOlsson:

Sure did .
You use recon vehicles when it is 'safe to surf'. Same as a Fiesler Storch, you don't want to go up against a Yak-7 in one of those.
Hollywood likes to blow up things, regardless of how and why. Do not use SPR or Pearl Harbour as a Discovery Channel documentary .

On the other hand, if you're in the Avant Garde, then it may not be 'safe to surf' but you will stand a good chance to survive anyway. In WiR a hex is either occupied or not occupied but in real life, there is a lot of air between units. Also, the front line is not a binary thing, natural obstacles (like a dense forrest or a deep lake) are part of the defence line, and in these grey areas, an enemy recon force will be able to wheel around without getting noticed. Normally, a recon unit will discover the enemy forces before they themselves are discovered. And that, incidentally, are one of their tasks.

Getting back to WiR, the impact of Recon Vehicles could be better implemented. it would be nice if a plaethora of recon vehicles would reward you with accurate information about enemy units (such as strength, experience, readiness, type of equipment etc). I do not think it is so today.

Your proposal doesn't sound too bad at all. The only way to get to know the enemy's numbers at the moment is to attack a unit with aircraft, which can be costly for the air force, unless you have air superiority.

Regards, Rundstedt

g00dd0ggy · Post by **g00dd0ggy** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 4:08 am

The Russkies had lots of diferent light recon vehicles when the war broke out, but when they rationalised to make everything from the T34 chassis (well nearly everything) they used T34s to recon with...not a bad idea.

heibis · Post by **heibis** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 10:41 am

The german recce units were a combined arms force of halftracks, armoured cars, infantry and support weapons. This meant that when they ran into trouble, they had the ability to do a fighting retreat so to say with minimal losses. You should not underestimate the power of knowing the enemys dispositions prior to commiting your main assets. Whether WIR simulates recon vehicles correctly is an other question, really...

Regards
Jens
(productive at work today

)

jager506 · Post by **jager506** » Sun Aug 05, 2001 1:13 pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rundstedt:

Are you serious?? Do I actually have to use my eyes and draw my own conclusions?! But that means I'll have to stop bugging you guys at this forum, and we wouldn't want that to happen, now wuld we?

Rundstedt, IMO the best way to improve at the game is to play PBEM. Virtually everyone I've met was quite willing to share tips while kicking my butt

, and of course you pick up things on your own as well, so start playin...

JustAGame · Post by **JustAGame** » Mon Aug 06, 2001 9:46 am

Consider "Recon Vehicles" as equivalent to lightly armored vehicles, such as the armored halftracks, APCs, etc.. As I believe the "Recon Vehicles" actually soak up some of the damage that either your tanks of the line or infantry squads would otherwise absorb, they do serve in augmenting your armored or infantry strength. In short, WIR seems to use "Recon Vehicles" as a generic group of light combat vehicles rather than a distinct unit with recon as it's role.