Combat Value

jesus · Post by **jesus** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 4:18 pm

Hi! It's my first time in this forum.

A question about the combat value of the corps.
In the "edit scenario" I build a panzer corp with an only batallion: 204 King Tiger, readiness 99% and experiencie 99%. The combat value is 59. If I build this unit with PzIIf instead King Tiger, the CV is also 59.
In the manual, equations use only the number of tanks (neither attack nor def. factors)to calculate the strengh of a unit.

Depend the combat value on the attack and def. factors?

Comments are welcome.

Jesus

RickyB · Post by **RickyB** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 5:55 pm

Originally posted by jesus:
Hi! It's my first time in this forum.

A question about the combat value of the corps.
In the "edit scenario" I build a panzer corp with an only batallion: 204 King Tiger, readiness 99% and experiencie 99%. The combat value is 59. If I build this unit with PzIIf instead King Tiger, the CV is also 59.
In the manual, equations use only the number of tanks (neither attack nor def. factors)to calculate the strengh of a unit.

Depend the combat value on the attack and def. factors?

Comments are welcome.

Jesus

It took me awhile to grasp it, but the manual is correct on this one <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> . Basically, the combat value is strictly a function of numbers of equipment and men, with a multiplier for AFVs. It does not matter how good the item is. The CV is only used to figure out after losses are applied from combat who wins the battle, including determination of shatter events and retreat results, based on the ratio. The quality of equipment, using the ratings, impacts the fire phases, where AT guns fire at tanks, tanks fire at tanks, etc. Here, in determining losses, is where the factors make a difference, possibly very large.

Svar · Post by **Svar** » Fri Aug 17, 2001 7:09 pm

jesus,

In addition to what Rick said, the ratio for combat odds is calculated after all losses are applied. If you were to send both those units against an equal opponent you would see that the Pz-IIf unit would take tremendous losses versus the King Tiger unit hence the final combat odds would be greatly different.

Svar

jesus · Post by **jesus** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 11:56 am

Thank you Rick and Svar for your comments.

I tested it.

Look at the battle reports:

Att. 199 T34 M43 (losses 99)
Def. 199 Tiger II (losses 8)

Att. 199 T34 M43 (losses 5)
Def. 213 PzII-f (losses 108)

Jesus

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 1:44 pm

Ricky & Svar

Thanks for that info. I thought that CV was indicative of the units total combat power. If i read you correctly then one of my, say '44 pbem Sov Tank armies of CV250 would still be CV250 with 700 T-60s as opposed to 700 T/KV-85's that it actually has ?
Also i have noticed that in 2 PBEM games that are up to late '43 early '44 the soviets seem to gain a qualitive improvement. Hard to explain but they seem more 'powerfull' or maybe 'professional'. If it was intended this way then it is a nice touch. (or maybe it's my imagination)

Nick

Oh yes, is readiness and training reflected in CV in any way at all?

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]</p>

PMCN · Post by **PMCN** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 2:00 pm

Lokioftheaesir writes...
Also i have noticed that in 2 PBEM games that are up to late '43 early '44 the soviets seem to gain a qualitive improvement. Hard to explain but they seem more 'powerfull' or maybe 'professional'. If it was intended this way then it is a nice touch. (or maybe it's my imagination)

If you check the manual you will see that in 44 all penelties against the soviets vanish so they no longer loose readiness at the start of the turn to reflect their lack of officers and general poor organisation. This does indeed make a huge difference in their combat ability.

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 2:28 pm

Originally posted by Paul McNeely:

If you check the manual you will see that in 44 all penelties against the soviets vanish so they no longer loose readiness at the start of the turn to reflect their lack of officers and general poor organisation. This does indeed make a huge difference in their combat ability.

Paul

Yes i've noted that. It is also the fact that i tend to get stuck in the 'poor defender against the highly professional german mode' All of a sudden iv'e tank armies that are all guards and have training of 85+ and it is the other guy who thinks my units are impervious to attack. There is a point where it all shifts over from german to soviet initiative(the point could stretch over 3-6 months). Funny though, we seem to hear very little about end games in 45, do most people conceed?

Nick

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 2:46 pm

Whatever happened to the last man and the last bullet scernario. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 2:58 pm

Originally posted by Muzrub:
Whatever happened to the last man and the last bullet scernario. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Muzrub

Two games i'm playing as Soviet at the moment. One is at Aug'43 and one at Feb'44. I intend to play both to the bitter end(?, heard that name before) One may with luck result in a soviet victory and one would require the prompt delivery of 200x20KT TacNucs for a soviet win.
I've done my best.

Nick

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:12 pm

In my first game as the Soviets I have recieved over 65,000 lost squads thanks to my opponent But I will continue the fight.

I dont see the point in just giving up. I'll let you in on a little secret I am looking forward to defending Berlin to the bitter end!. Winning is one one thing, but skill in losing is another. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:44 pm

Originally posted by Muzrub:

Winning is one one thing, but skill in losing is another. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Muzrub

What an excellent attitude. If you want to play a game contact me at..

nemesis@northnet.com.au

Nick

PS. Skill at losing is my forte. Though i do try hard to to do the other. (2 so far)

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]</p>

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:55 pm

If you wish to be german......Email me first.

muzrub@hotmail.com.....

varjager · Post by **varjager** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 4:04 pm

What is this?????

2 Aussies playing against each other.The mighty Muzrub against Loki the thief! I am so looking forward to your Battle reports!

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 4:23 pm

I have no fear, for I am Mighty Muzrub Lord of all!.

As for playing a man who has based himself on fables and mythology..Hurrah I say.

Mighty Muzrub

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 4:26 pm

Originally posted by varjager:
What is this?????
2 Aussies playing against each other.The mighty Muzrub against Loki the thief! I am so looking forward to your Battle reports!

Varjager

1. I forgot that Muzrub was just up the coast from me. The last time i drove through there i got a $100 speeding fine, facsist bastards.
2. We AUSTRALIANS have been noted by leaders of repute to be excellent combat toops.We throw convention to the winds and do what is needed at the time it is needed and stuff what the REMF's say. Rommel said so and so did US commander Hackworth(in my opinion the best US commander in Vietnam)
3. Loki the thief? He was the 'trickster, messenger' if you do'nt mind. I only steal from my own wallet. (Usually in software shops)
4. The way you said '2 aussies playing against eachother' make us sound like some form of millitary super technology.

We are.

Nick

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 4:39 pm

By Jingo's sport, 2 Aussie ocka blokes having a bit of fun aint no crime.
I was stunned as a Roo in a the headlights of a Holden mate, when you besmirched us so.

varjager · Post by **varjager** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 5:08 pm

Lokioftheaesir,do you have time to play against me as well? Then i would be the only one on this board to play against the greatest commander alive! (according to there on words)

varjager@hotmail.com

Any side of your choise! 41,42,43 you pick!

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 5:08 pm

Originally posted by Muzrub:
By Jingo's sport, 2 Aussie ocka blokes having a bit of fun aint no crime.
I was stunned as a Roo in a the headlights of a Holden mate, when you besmirched us so.

Muzrub

I swear...These forriners no nothin 'bout Oz. Got a million bloody weirdos tryin to get into our great land. Bunch of wanker nobodies think they own the world but their all tryn to get in here. Bit of free licence and all the yanks want to live on the gold coast and all the bloody afganis tryin toget here get stuck on some bloody nowhere bunghole crap 'indoneeesisain' eyeland where they cant get nothin to eeet. Send the bastards back where they came from i say.
But then again, we are FIRST world 'bloody ratbags' and if you do'nt like it...do'nt try to come to our great free wonderfull empty land of opportunity.

LA, Moscow, Dehli.. great places to live.. but i wood'nt want to live there.

Nick

PS. Hey Muzrub, i hit a roo east of broken hill in the premier. Jeez, blew all the panels back about 2 inches long the left side, could'nt get the shotties door open without a crowbar. Fuk.

PPS. To all you non-believers out there. I have personally ridden across the nullabor desert on my Ducati(bloody eyeties) at 200 Kph and only come across a lone gas station every 250 Km. We have the land area of china and one half the Met pop of shanghai.

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]</p>

PMCN · Post by **PMCN** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 5:22 pm

Loki there are 3 things contribuiting I think:

1. the lack of a readiness penelty, I think this is more important than it may look.
2. the fact that you are now getting better equipment in large quantities and more importantly should have an airforce which can at least render airpower equal will mean that you take fewer losses per combat even if you don't win. And this means your troops experience will not drop like a rock every time you fight. And of course you are now more likely to win the battle.
3. because of the above you will see higher experience units and these units will of course fight better in the next battle so now you have a feedback loop going. So things should only get better and better for you.

I am not sure but I also think you base experience has increased (to 60 or something like that) which speeds up the loop.

varjager · Post by **varjager** » Mon Aug 20, 2001 5:24 pm

Should i take that as a no Loki?
Since i dont see the point of going around the bush with a tale of killing animals?