wir 3.1 partially broken

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 5:42 am

The 3.1 just released has a bug where any HQ that does not have an army or corps attached to it gets no OPs. Since the front line HQs always have a corps/army attached, this is a problem only for the rear echelon HQs, like the German West and Italian Front HQs, and the Army Group HQs, North, Center, and South. This will also effect RVGK and STAVKA, and any Soviet HQs created in the rear to hold air groups or ground units that are training, for example.

The only work around is to attach a dummy corps/army with a single unit in it to the HQs. This will mean having to use 5 or 6 dummy corps for each side, and it also means the HQ has one less slot to work with, but these aren't serious problems, just annoyances.

I'm sorry for this folks, Arnaud apparently made changes to the game beyond just bug fixes and ended up triggering an old bug (we've seen this before). Obviously, we never got a chance to playtest it first before he sent it out. We'll get Arnaud to get a quick fix out fast, as soon as he checks his email.

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 5:55 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:
[QB]..... Since the front line HQs always have a corps/army attached, this is a problem only for the rear echelon HQs, like the German West and Italian Front HQs, and the Army Group HQs, North, Center, and South.....

Hi Ed

If i remember correctly my AGnorth and south HQ's had no Corps shells attached (in the varjagerwar) only subordinate armies. They did not go to zero, which says to me that either a corps or army is required. More applicable to me is that i use 'flying HQ's for special supply so they DO need a near empty shell to stop this. Iv'e resorted to using the rear area anti-partisan garrisons for this.
This small problem is i feel well offset by the fixing of other problems, especially the post stop order one.

Nick

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:53 am

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:
If i remember correctly my AGnorth and south HQ's had no Corps shells attached (in the varjagerwar) only subordinate armies. They did not go to zero, which says to me that either a corps or army is required.

After more checking it appears that OKW, OKH, and the Army Group HQs, AGN, AGC & AGS are not effected, but the 2 special German Fronts and all Army HQs will lose OPs if they don't have a corps attached to the HQ. This makes it easier to sidestep the problem if we don't have to deal with the 5 HQs mentioned above. I haven't checked the Soviet side.

Tom1939 · Post by **Tom1939** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 10:32 am

This bug was present in previous release as well (for at least for the soviets) but I thought it is for stopping special supply abuse. Sorry for not reporting it... I had problems with this long ago.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 12:06 pm

Originally posted by Tom1939:
This bug was present in previous release as well (for at least for the soviets) but I thought it is for stopping special supply abuse.

No, its a bug we've known about for awhile. Nailing it down has been difficult.

Sorry for not reporting it... I had problems with this long ago.

You weren't alone. Most of us has seen it at least once.

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:19 pm

Originally posted by Tom1939:
This bug was present in previous release as well (for at least for the soviets) but I thought it is for stopping special supply abuse. Sorry for not reporting it... I had problems with this long ago.

Tom1939

Have i been abusing special supply with my flying
HQ's? I thought i was making efficient use of resources. Frankly i feel it is valid, without it the german chances of victory fall (in my opinion) quite a bit.
In fact in one pbem game i'm playing my opponent suggested we both stop using it. A smart move if i had accepted, as he is he soviets.
Special supply is a vital leg in my attack/counterattack triad, with multiple-PzCps and airpower the other two. If you take away one leg of a tripod what happens?

Nick

Tom1939 · Post by **Tom1939** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:42 pm

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:

Tom1939

Have i been abusing special supply with my flying
HQ's? I thought i was making efficient use of resources. Frankly i feel it is valid, without it the german chances of victory fall (in my opinion) quite a bit.
In fact in one pbem game i'm playing my opponent suggested we both stop using it. A smart move if i had accepted, as he is he soviets.
Special supply is a vital leg in my attack/counterattack triad, with multiple-PzCps and airpower the other two. If you take away one leg of a tripod what happens?

Nick

Well I think it is overused, but I don't necesary say you abuse. Most of the time I use special supply by only the real commanding hq's, very rarely do I use "empty" hq's as only special supply, but then I use one empty army in my great patrotic war as germans in my southern offense for only special supply. But I had massed stuff for a year for that offense (I can say I massed supply for that). So I would say if you use some hq's for special supply is alright, but a lot of them seems unlogical to me. You could rail in hq's for free and get every unit ressuplied. I say that is not possible. But get me clear I don't say abuse. I do too much micromanagment of production for my part... All panther production would be very hard to achieve politicaly, but I do it anyway. Evereybody does something which could be labelled abuse, so don't worry about it as long you had a deal with your opponent. I like to play with full strength panzer korpses only, few special supply, a *lot* of production managment. I nearly always get beaten, but I enjoy playing this way <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 5:04 am

Originally posted by Tom1939:

I like to play with full strength panzer korpses only, few special supply, a *lot* of production managment. I nearly always get beaten, but I enjoy playing this way <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Tom1939

I also only use full strength PzCps(by 1942 i try to organise ones with 3PzDvs and 2MotDivs=11 staking, they are very powerfull).
Not that much production management. Special supply i failed to point out is used nearly exclusively with PzCps and very rarely with InfCps and mostly only when the PzCps fall below 60 readiness. I also find that using SpcSup on corps in supply 1 or 2 hexes is a waste of time.

Nick

Tom1939 · Post by **Tom1939** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 10:19 am

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:

Tom1939

I also only use full strength PzCps(by 1942 i try to organise ones with 3PzDvs and 2MotDivs=11 staking, they are very powerfull).
Not that much production management. Special supply i failed to point out is used nearly exclusively with PzCps and very rarely with InfCps and mostly only when the PzCps fall below 60 readiness. I also find that using SpcSup on corps in supply 1 or 2 hexes is a waste of time.

Nick

I use 3 panzer and 1 motor div and at least 2 independent panzer bn's. I'am a coward so I try not to exceed 10 stacking points <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 2:37 pm

I added an Army to my HQ's without OP's but the it seems the problem is still there....

Muzrub · Post by **Muzrub** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 3:17 pm

It looks as though the problem has ran away!

Another Victory for Mother Russia!

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 4:59 am

Hi all

I just bore the brunt of the first pbem soviet blizzard attack in V3.1. The soviet army, in good shape, hit the axis line (which is made up of about 75% of the axis inf forces and no armour) and forced about 6 retreats/no shatters and 1600 inf squad losses.
The axis can survive this with no house rules.
The bug fix looks good.

Nick